| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." 17:38 - Mar 2 with 3716 views | Lblock |
I keep seeing this.
I can't get my head around it.
It all comes across as totally missplaced conceitedness to me.
Same as when we say Player "X" needs to be sold.
You need clubs willing to take them no?
What makes people think clubs at any half decent level are falling over themselves to take these co called prospects that a load of idiots who are clueless about football have signed? There's literally only two or three good examples in recent memory that you could cite -- Chair to Stevenage, Eze to Wycombe and (pushing it here), Lumley to Brizzle Rovers.
None of those under the current incumbents of Heads of xxxx
Where else has us loaning out young players benefitted the accepting club, QPR and in turn the developing player? Examples are rare as hen's teeth and if I'm the Chairman / Owner of another club I'm not looking to extend my budget, potentially upset my squad or risk derision from my fans just to accomodate a punt QPR with their track record have taken.
Maybe I'm wrong but the current lack of our players at any sort of half decent level is either down to this and/or the absolute dearth of contacts Nourry and his team of Heads have in the game.
Surely anyone with some sort of football knowledge can see Esquidinhia would be eaten alive in League One or Two? I've described him as the worst Brazilian since Gemma Collins shaved her fanny and I stick by that. I actually feared for his wellbeing at Oxford but always did have a tiny voice in my head saying "he's putting that all on.... doesn't like to be hit hard". I'm a harsh old w@nker I know but being available for selection a week after being stretchered off in a leg brace with gas and air being given has justified that feeling to me.
I'd also add other "developing" players to that - Bennie has razzled in a blinder against a Hull side leavign space everywhere, but where would a recieving club actually look to play him? It seems the club who owns him doesn't know itself what his position is. He's been with us nearly two season's now hasn't he?
The other Aussies will be exactly the same I'd say - extensive and far reaching data and profiling by the same Agent might be a clue.
Just as I finish typing the GK in Murphy springs to mind.
Mmmmmm.... maybe but Barnsley weren't grumbling when he was pulled out and sent to Hillsborough.
I'm all for loaning out players to learn their trade in the mens game but the fact is they need to have something about them to enable that.
Maybe Nourry will examine this when he reviews himself this summer in his own Staff Performance Assessment - he'll probably give himelf 11 out of 10 though.
For me it's a FAIL at the moment and shows no sign of improving.
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:04 - Mar 4 with 789 views | mart_Goblin |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 11:09 - Mar 4 by wombat |
yes was highly rated before he came to us as well i believe . scary how bad hes become i a fairy short time |
Feels like we ruin young players who come from bigger clubs with high expectations from them and the football world in general.
Not sure if that statement is true or not but it feels like it .
Sean Goss arrived with huge expectations and failed miserably for example.
Latest ones are Morgan and Vale.
These 2 look ok . Not much more at the moment but we are probably still in the ‘adapting to Championship football window.
Whether EDB is or was extremely fortunate to be at a club like Liverpool or we have just killed him is up for debate .
I know which side I’d probably fall on though . |  | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:29 - Mar 4 with 731 views | 7374Ranger |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 10:51 - Mar 4 by ozexile |
His drop off is incredible. Wasn't he at Liverpool? |
he was at Arsenal too. |  | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:48 - Mar 4 with 669 views | Lblock |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:04 - Mar 4 by mart_Goblin |
Feels like we ruin young players who come from bigger clubs with high expectations from them and the football world in general.
Not sure if that statement is true or not but it feels like it .
Sean Goss arrived with huge expectations and failed miserably for example.
Latest ones are Morgan and Vale.
These 2 look ok . Not much more at the moment but we are probably still in the ‘adapting to Championship football window.
Whether EDB is or was extremely fortunate to be at a club like Liverpool or we have just killed him is up for debate .
I know which side I’d probably fall on though . |
He wouldn't be the first highly rated prospect we've had and totally mis-managed from start to finish.
Inticed with a BIG contract for 4 years effectively making them a multi-millionaire overnight.
Fail to mentor right from the start.
Left to own devices... young men + money = make your own mind up.
Fail to keep them atoned to standards as the club basically doesn't have any.
Nett result? Disaster.
Of course we aren't the only club to have this issue but as it's our club we have heightened awareness of it.
If you've ever spoken to anybody who has experienced first hand the youth set up at QPR then I'd be amazed if you won't have tales of chaos, poor management, cliques and self preservation via excuses.
Nourry impressed me early in his tenure with his talk of achieving, needing to be effecting first team and (mainly) his chopping out of some comfortable deadwood who had produced the square root of f'all last few years. Decent men who cared for the club were left but now these are / have been dismantled and disposed of largely as well.
It's not rocket science -- pick up the best prospects from lower down in the pyramid, catch one's falling through the Prem cracks and mould both types into decent players by coaching, close quarters mentoring, developing life skills, nuturing a passion and commitment etc, etc, etc.
You can't achieve this by sitting behind a laptop looking at data from trackers etc.
Circus | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:58 - Mar 4 with 628 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 13:04 - Mar 4 by mart_Goblin |
Feels like we ruin young players who come from bigger clubs with high expectations from them and the football world in general.
Not sure if that statement is true or not but it feels like it .
Sean Goss arrived with huge expectations and failed miserably for example.
Latest ones are Morgan and Vale.
These 2 look ok . Not much more at the moment but we are probably still in the ‘adapting to Championship football window.
Whether EDB is or was extremely fortunate to be at a club like Liverpool or we have just killed him is up for debate .
I know which side I’d probably fall on though . |
How about the player takes responsibility for his own standards?
Why is it QPR’s fault that EDB’s football career is tailing off?
He’s been at Arsenal, Liverpool, QPR, Vasteras SK, Morecambe and Wealdstone so far with others to come no doubt but apparently it’s QPR who’ve ‘ruined’ him…. |  | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 15:29 - Mar 4 with 569 views | Lblock |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:58 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
How about the player takes responsibility for his own standards?
Why is it QPR’s fault that EDB’s football career is tailing off?
He’s been at Arsenal, Liverpool, QPR, Vasteras SK, Morecambe and Wealdstone so far with others to come no doubt but apparently it’s QPR who’ve ‘ruined’ him…. |
As per my earlier repsonse to the learned gentleman.... maybe we gave him the Contract of a lifetime. | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 16:23 - Mar 4 with 529 views | Match82 |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:58 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
How about the player takes responsibility for his own standards?
Why is it QPR’s fault that EDB’s football career is tailing off?
He’s been at Arsenal, Liverpool, QPR, Vasteras SK, Morecambe and Wealdstone so far with others to come no doubt but apparently it’s QPR who’ve ‘ruined’ him…. |
They could and should take responsibility for their own standards but some of these kids are young, and at that age not everyone takes that ownership. When I was 18 I was an idiot and I'm glad I had people to keep me on the right path. I ended up more successful as a result |  | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 16:41 - Mar 4 with 508 views | nick_hammersmith |
I listened to an Undr The Cosh where Macauley Bonne was moaning that QPR ruined his career by paying him too much.
I think I saw a pre season video where they filmed the players driving into the car park and I recall Rafferty Pedder had a nice Porsche, did he even play for the first team, maybe as a sub? |  | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 17:38 - Mar 4 with 450 views | mart_Goblin |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:58 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
How about the player takes responsibility for his own standards?
Why is it QPR’s fault that EDB’s football career is tailing off?
He’s been at Arsenal, Liverpool, QPR, Vasteras SK, Morecambe and Wealdstone so far with others to come no doubt but apparently it’s QPR who’ve ‘ruined’ him…. |
You make a fair point Ned and I have caveated my point by saying I’m not sure if how it looks and feels is actually fact.
However , I’ll tell you why we are perhaps more responsible than other clubs . And that is we took EDB at probably the most important crossroads in his career , when you move out of the dev squad to be in men’s professional football, sign his first pro contract at a new club and all the trappings and nonsense that goes with it . Have we given these youngsters everything they have need to succeed over the last 20 years ?
Again, I don’t know the answer but we can see with our own eyes what conclusion we might arrive at.
All the other clubs mentioned after us he was on loan at . Not sure you can pin much blame on them.
To mention Wealdstone , for example is a bit strange .
However , your first point is an important one and you are completely correct to raise it .
Yes, they are young and inexperienced and the club should help with that especially coming from abroad. But they also need to take responsibility themselves for everything they do .
They like to take the ridiculous (in real world terms) wages , so the attitude and commitment should come with it.
I don’t know EDB, or just as an example Taylor Richards (arrived from premier league club with people ‘in football’ bigging him up), but are they doing everything possible to succeed?
Maybe . But I have my doubts .
So I’m not saying it’s all QPR’s fault , as we all know thats inconceivable anyway in your eyes, but over the last 20 years , let’s say, our record feels really poor in nurturing young talent from other clubs . Eze, thank god, is a bit of an outlier off the top of my head . There will be more of course.
But it just feels like our strike rate is terrible .
I could be wrong and happy to be proved wrong too. | | | |
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| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 18:48 - Mar 4 with 393 views | TK1 |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:48 - Mar 4 by Lblock |
He wouldn't be the first highly rated prospect we've had and totally mis-managed from start to finish.
Inticed with a BIG contract for 4 years effectively making them a multi-millionaire overnight.
Fail to mentor right from the start.
Left to own devices... young men + money = make your own mind up.
Fail to keep them atoned to standards as the club basically doesn't have any.
Nett result? Disaster.
Of course we aren't the only club to have this issue but as it's our club we have heightened awareness of it.
If you've ever spoken to anybody who has experienced first hand the youth set up at QPR then I'd be amazed if you won't have tales of chaos, poor management, cliques and self preservation via excuses.
Nourry impressed me early in his tenure with his talk of achieving, needing to be effecting first team and (mainly) his chopping out of some comfortable deadwood who had produced the square root of f'all last few years. Decent men who cared for the club were left but now these are / have been dismantled and disposed of largely as well.
It's not rocket science -- pick up the best prospects from lower down in the pyramid, catch one's falling through the Prem cracks and mould both types into decent players by coaching, close quarters mentoring, developing life skills, nuturing a passion and commitment etc, etc, etc.
You can't achieve this by sitting behind a laptop looking at data from trackers etc.
Circus |
None of that is true with EDB, though.
He signed after a trial, on recommendation of Beale who had worked with him at Liverpool. It was an 18 month contract, not "a four year deal that made him a millionaire".
He played 20+ games. Did well, though suffered a couple of injuries (he'd also been injured at Liverpool - these things stack up).
In July 24 he'd done well enough though to earn another contract. I doubt very much it made him a millionaire or runs for very long. The story is here:
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/202
Since then, two experienced, good managers in Cifuentes and Stephan have looked at him and said, 'no'. They've said 'yes' to other younger players. So it's probably on EDB.
Players fall short for all kinds of reasons. Maybe, yes, the club mismanaged him. As you say, wouldn't be the first. But maybe he just fell short of Championship standard and dealt badly with that, maybe his injuries took something away, maybe he's depressed, maybe he's had trouble, maybe he's not in love with the game...
If the club can take EDB from Liverpool and he's failing at Wealdstone, but take Morgan from Spurs and he's in the first team in the same position, I reckon it's up to the players, not the club. | | | |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 19:20 - Mar 4 with 316 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| "Would benefit from a loan elsewhere...." on 14:58 - Mar 4 by Ned_Kennedys |
How about the player takes responsibility for his own standards?
Why is it QPR’s fault that EDB’s football career is tailing off?
He’s been at Arsenal, Liverpool, QPR, Vasteras SK, Morecambe and Wealdstone so far with others to come no doubt but apparently it’s QPR who’ve ‘ruined’ him…. |
Agree with you, Ned. At least on a general point.
Can't comment on EDB except to say that - like so many others - he had the technical skills required to play at a high level. Or, to put it another way, plenty less technically skilled than him have made it.
He got quite a few chances here, and quite a few chances elsewhere.
I'm not sure what's holding him back, but it doesn't have to be our fault neccessarily.
But on your general point, I completely agree.
In most cases - barring abuse or malpractice - a player should take responsibility for his own career, just as he should for his own life outside of football. |  |
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