| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town 10:30 - Aug 20 with 24686 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:02 - Aug 23 with 4461 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 08:25 - Aug 23 by beat_the_bishop |
I know Callum Perry came into a side that was doing well and obviously the level below but with these these academy players you can usually see/tell straight away whether or not they are going to do well and make it in the game. It feels like 1 in 10 loans from a similar calibre end up truly successful and make a meaningful impact. The rest just here to tick boxes on their ‘development path’.
Obviously, I sit here happy to be proved wrong and hoping he grows with games but at the age of 20 I don’t really have much patience for them. They are young but not ‘kids’. They need to come in and make a difference. Particularly in our situation where we are just seeking stability.
On the other hand, the senior pro’s are hardly inspiring at the minute either. Casey Petit gets in this team instantly. He’s a leader and not one to hide. He’d get the armband too if it was left to me. [Post edited 23 Aug 8:34]
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Absolutely need a change of (start of) leadership on the pitch, and would agree with Pettit when he's fit |  |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:05 - Aug 23 with 4449 views | Newbury_Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 08:25 - Aug 23 by beat_the_bishop |
I know Callum Perry came into a side that was doing well and obviously the level below but with these these academy players you can usually see/tell straight away whether or not they are going to do well and make it in the game. It feels like 1 in 10 loans from a similar calibre end up truly successful and make a meaningful impact. The rest just here to tick boxes on their ‘development path’.
Obviously, I sit here happy to be proved wrong and hoping he grows with games but at the age of 20 I don’t really have much patience for them. They are young but not ‘kids’. They need to come in and make a difference. Particularly in our situation where we are just seeking stability.
On the other hand, the senior pro’s are hardly inspiring at the minute either. Casey Petit gets in this team instantly. He’s a leader and not one to hide. He’d get the armband too if it was left to me. [Post edited 23 Aug 8:34]
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Agree with what your saying. You see quite quickly how much quicker the game is and how much physically stronger the [opposition] players are at this level. No hiding places and blooding an academy product in the National League is a totally different proposition to doing it in L2. Maybe its premature to write Wilson off after one game but he looked too raw and well short of the level to me. We urgently need to recruit another competent defender with experience at this level, but he will need to be better than Sherring. | | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 11:04 - Aug 23 with 4230 views | upthedale2403 |
Yesterday’s performance was a marginal improvement on Newport. The switch to a back three appears to have been driven by injuries and the personnel available, which is understandable in the circumstances. It is not, though, the reason the performance fell short — the issues lie in what was done within that shape, not the shape being forced upon us.
If personnel were the constraint, the selection choices become harder to explain rather than easier. Hannant performed well at wing-back last season and was not considered for a role the system actively requires. We have players available who were recruited to compete for a wide position that the shape does not accommodate. Playing Moss and TAR on their unnatural flanks was also notable
There is a further inconsistency around Adeeko. Having been identified last week as the profile of midfielder the side needs, leaving him on the bench with resources already stretched is difficult to reconcile.
The equaliser shifted momentum clearly in our favour and the game was there to be won. Substitutions at that point looked necessary to most in the ground, and the failure to act was a missed opportunity — one that owed nothing to the injury situation.
Done and Taylor were significant contributors to last season’s success and their absence is being felt. The wider concern is whether Watson has the experience, or the requisite expertise within his backroom staff, to guide his decision-making. The early signs are concerning
I would very much like to be proven wrong, but nothing so far has given cause for optimism. [Post edited 23 Aug 11:26]
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 11:28 - Aug 23 with 4126 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 11:04 - Aug 23 by upthedale2403 |
Yesterday’s performance was a marginal improvement on Newport. The switch to a back three appears to have been driven by injuries and the personnel available, which is understandable in the circumstances. It is not, though, the reason the performance fell short — the issues lie in what was done within that shape, not the shape being forced upon us.
If personnel were the constraint, the selection choices become harder to explain rather than easier. Hannant performed well at wing-back last season and was not considered for a role the system actively requires. We have players available who were recruited to compete for a wide position that the shape does not accommodate. Playing Moss and TAR on their unnatural flanks was also notable
There is a further inconsistency around Adeeko. Having been identified last week as the profile of midfielder the side needs, leaving him on the bench with resources already stretched is difficult to reconcile.
The equaliser shifted momentum clearly in our favour and the game was there to be won. Substitutions at that point looked necessary to most in the ground, and the failure to act was a missed opportunity — one that owed nothing to the injury situation.
Done and Taylor were significant contributors to last season’s success and their absence is being felt. The wider concern is whether Watson has the experience, or the requisite expertise within his backroom staff, to guide his decision-making. The early signs are concerning
I would very much like to be proven wrong, but nothing so far has given cause for optimism. [Post edited 23 Aug 11:26]
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These are all good points. Referencing Taylor and Done is a clear indication that having good experience in your coaching team is a huge benefit, so let's not forget that it took McNulty a couple of seasons to get things right, and at a lower standard of football
One of the biggest gripes was his inability to make subs when the game (and almost everyone watching) demanded it. This changed when he recruited good lieutenants
Just one point though: our injury list, and in particular the key personnel involved, really does extend beyond what can reasonably be termed "routine". He's tried to bolster those he's having to start with by saying his squad is good enough (to say otherwise would be to dishearten them) but we can all see there's player(s) who wouldn't even be on the bench with a full squad to choose from | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 11:49 - Aug 23 with 4051 views | Edindale |
Having listened to the commentary and watched the highlights I think we are in trouble. IW's post match analysis did not give me much confidence and unfortunately he already looks like a man under intense pressure. losing our first two is not a catastrophe but it is the manner in which we are getting beaten.
Ideally we need a minimum of 4 points from the next three games to get back on track. Otherwise the manager will be on borrowed time as we scramble for points against some of the better teams in the division.
I also watched passages of the other EFL2 games before our match and do not believe that all is lost given the standard of performance on show. Bristol Rovers and Chesterfield looked like good sides. Newport performed credibly and could have snatched a draw at the death. However Salford, Walsall and Grimsby looked like ordinary sides.
The thing that stood out for me was the pace, athleticism and strength of the other teams players and their desire for the second ball. Hopefully Taylor, Adeeko and Petit can help to address this sooner rather than later. Not sure that Wilson is right for us at his stage of development.
Clearly systems and formations need to be sensible with players in positions they are comfortable with, but I am more concerned with the teams confidence and body language. We looked like cats in the headlights allowing Crawley to pass around us, and our defending lacks any authority which is not helped by an inexperienced keeper.
They even kept three players up field at our corners such was their confidence!
However my greatest concern is where are the goals going to come from? Mani is a passenger in the formation we play and Brown is anything but prolific. They are not linking and chances are not being created. Also don't think that Brown despite his work rate is a 10 and would prefer to see him as an out and out striker.
I appreciate that there are no easy solutions otherwise we would simply go and buy someone like Matt Rush. However we need to address this issue now and certainly before the transfer deadline.
Hopefully IW has the guile to solve these issues and turn things around as players return. We need to see marginal improvements on a week by week basis together with tactical clarity. He has a big job on his hands and admittedly has been unlucky with injuries but the squad doesn't look right.
It is such a shame that the football entertainment has dipped when there has been so much good investment into the non playing side of the club.
UTD. | | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 12:25 - Aug 23 with 3942 views | James1980 |
The fans forum is going to be interesting I'd suggest some very robust questions need to be asked surrounding Jim's departure and the recruitment of Ian. | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 12:41 - Aug 23 with 3886 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 12:25 - Aug 23 by James1980 |
The fans forum is going to be interesting I'd suggest some very robust questions need to be asked surrounding Jim's departure and the recruitment of Ian. |
It’s the perfect opportunity for fans to go and find out specifics rather than relying on assumptions.
There are a lot of valid concerns, would expect both the board and the manager to acknowledge and address them should supporters bring them up on the night.
They’ll probably now wish they’d done it pre-season like normal! |  |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 16:31 - Aug 23 with 3470 views | Dale_4_Life |
There are obvious concerns and eyebrow raised but with some mitigating circumstance.
Jenkins Hayes Petit… huge miss all 3 out long term.
At 1-1 yesterday we had a chance with our best passage of play. I agree the subs were far too late… but we need to remain calm as IW and CM need at least 8 games to implement their plan.
The next 3 games are huge…our management team need to learn and quickly as football is ruthless, let’s see where we are at after matchday 5.
Not ideal - we need a response this weekend (performance) even if the result does not go our way. | | | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 08:49 - Aug 24 with 2801 views | fitzochris |
Firstly, I thought the switch to a back three was a brave decision. Whether it was by design or necessity, it at least showed a willingness to be flexible and change something that hadn't been working. I don't think anyone can reasonably complain about a manager refusing to adapt when he actually does so.
That said, I don't think the change ultimately solved the problems. We still had the same issues defensively, with personnel simply not matching up well enough against their opposition. The first Crawley goal in particular was calamitous.
We did get into wide areas much more effectively in the first half, but there was very little end product once the ball went into the box. The second half was more encouraging. We looked more threatening across the whole final third and, importantly, a bit more aggressive in competing for balls into the box. That eventually contributed to the goal. But even then, we didn't really test their keeper enough.
The impact of the substitutions makes the decision to wait until the 82nd minute even harder to understand. There was noticeably more impetus after the changes and you'd have thought there was an opportunity to make them earlier.
But, for me, the biggest concern coming out of this is the potential for the atmosphere around the club to turn toxic.
I know some people want entertaining football, and I certainly didn't find Saturday boring. Frustrating, absolutely, but not boring. I will always advocate winning football over entertaining football. If you can have both, brilliant, but if I have to choose, I'll take winning football all day long. The likes of José Mourinho figured out a long time ago that football is a competitive sport, not a trip to the cinema. I appreciate others will see it differently, but that's my view.
The problem is that, entertaining or otherwise, we need to start winning football matches. If we don't, even the most patient supporters are inevitably going to start asking serious questions.
We've only just fought so hard to regain our EFL status. We absolutely cannot afford to put that in jeopardy.
There is plenty to improve, and I don't think pretending otherwise helps anyone. But equally, I really don't want to see the feel-good factor that surrounded last season's promotion evaporate within a few weeks and be replaced by venom. We need to be demanding improvement without losing sight of where we've come from and what is ultimately at stake. Watson has had such a bad hand dealt to him with regards to injuries. He must have walked under a ton of ladders and kicked in a load of mirrors on his way down to Spotland from South Shields. Still, he has to find a way to get results until that situation resolves itself. If he doesn’t do so soon, I can see patience everywhere wearing out. |  |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 09:14 - Aug 24 with 2764 views | tony_roch975 |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 08:49 - Aug 24 by fitzochris |
Firstly, I thought the switch to a back three was a brave decision. Whether it was by design or necessity, it at least showed a willingness to be flexible and change something that hadn't been working. I don't think anyone can reasonably complain about a manager refusing to adapt when he actually does so.
That said, I don't think the change ultimately solved the problems. We still had the same issues defensively, with personnel simply not matching up well enough against their opposition. The first Crawley goal in particular was calamitous.
We did get into wide areas much more effectively in the first half, but there was very little end product once the ball went into the box. The second half was more encouraging. We looked more threatening across the whole final third and, importantly, a bit more aggressive in competing for balls into the box. That eventually contributed to the goal. But even then, we didn't really test their keeper enough.
The impact of the substitutions makes the decision to wait until the 82nd minute even harder to understand. There was noticeably more impetus after the changes and you'd have thought there was an opportunity to make them earlier.
But, for me, the biggest concern coming out of this is the potential for the atmosphere around the club to turn toxic.
I know some people want entertaining football, and I certainly didn't find Saturday boring. Frustrating, absolutely, but not boring. I will always advocate winning football over entertaining football. If you can have both, brilliant, but if I have to choose, I'll take winning football all day long. The likes of José Mourinho figured out a long time ago that football is a competitive sport, not a trip to the cinema. I appreciate others will see it differently, but that's my view.
The problem is that, entertaining or otherwise, we need to start winning football matches. If we don't, even the most patient supporters are inevitably going to start asking serious questions.
We've only just fought so hard to regain our EFL status. We absolutely cannot afford to put that in jeopardy.
There is plenty to improve, and I don't think pretending otherwise helps anyone. But equally, I really don't want to see the feel-good factor that surrounded last season's promotion evaporate within a few weeks and be replaced by venom. We need to be demanding improvement without losing sight of where we've come from and what is ultimately at stake. Watson has had such a bad hand dealt to him with regards to injuries. He must have walked under a ton of ladders and kicked in a load of mirrors on his way down to Spotland from South Shields. Still, he has to find a way to get results until that situation resolves itself. If he doesn’t do so soon, I can see patience everywhere wearing out. |
Absolutely, winning football matches is the only bottom line; the back 3 switch was a good move, late substitutions hurt and we're still weak defensively but equally IW's choice of ever more square pegs in round holes (eg TAR, Moss, East) exacerbates the problem.
But more worrying was the lack of noise during the match from U Block who also left without applauding the team after the final whistle.
Yes, acknowledge the unlucky injuries and remember where we've come from but it's essential IW provides some honest assessment at the Forum of the poor start and more importantly the way forward. | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:06 - Aug 24 with 2649 views | NorthernDale |
I don't think there will be any difficult questions at the forum,it will be all nice and polite.
I want all Rochdale managers to succeed, because if they succeed, the Dale are being successful, but as others have implied and I agree, IW is sounding desperate, he can see the problems, but is struggling to find the solutions. | | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:41 - Aug 24 with 2558 views | kel |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:06 - Aug 24 by NorthernDale |
I don't think there will be any difficult questions at the forum,it will be all nice and polite.
I want all Rochdale managers to succeed, because if they succeed, the Dale are being successful, but as others have implied and I agree, IW is sounding desperate, he can see the problems, but is struggling to find the solutions. |
Are you going to ask any questions at the forum? Nobody is telling you you have to be “nice and polite” so ask away. |  |
| Anyone seen ‘Trev’? Is he off playing golf with Duffy? |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 11:26 - Aug 24 with 2462 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 09:14 - Aug 24 by tony_roch975 |
Absolutely, winning football matches is the only bottom line; the back 3 switch was a good move, late substitutions hurt and we're still weak defensively but equally IW's choice of ever more square pegs in round holes (eg TAR, Moss, East) exacerbates the problem.
But more worrying was the lack of noise during the match from U Block who also left without applauding the team after the final whistle.
Yes, acknowledge the unlucky injuries and remember where we've come from but it's essential IW provides some honest assessment at the Forum of the poor start and more importantly the way forward. |
There were a few boos coming from that side of the Pearl St at the final whistle
These are youths, heads turned easily by last season. I was disappointed at defeat but overall - yes, despite the late subs and square pegs etc. - slightly encouraged too since we recovered from a shaky start and fought for the opportunity to win the game. As Daley Lama points out, our most promising move involving Mani D and Gilmour ended with their penalty. Gilmour was unable to use the breakthrough space
As better players come back and new ones bed in, i see no reason why points won't follow. The U Block don't understand patience, but there's no excuse for more seasoned heads. I get there's nerves around the Eyre/Stockdale scenario but he can't make Gilmour make more of the break he had, which is when the game changed. He's brought in replacements in Adeeko and Taylor and has to make the tough calls with Dale favourites who aren't cutting it now [Post edited 24 Aug 11:28]
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:34 - Aug 24 with 2210 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 10:41 - Aug 24 by kel |
Are you going to ask any questions at the forum? Nobody is telling you you have to be “nice and polite” so ask away. |
Of course there is the chance some can’t attend the forum, but if they have a particular question, nice or not, the club have already said they can be sent in advance via the Trust:
https://rochdaleafc.co.uk/fans
Have always struggled to comprehend why fans forums are seen as anything but a chance to get answers on something supporters may feel strongly about.
If that opportunity isn’t taken, there’s no point going on afterwards about a situation where you might want a better understanding of what’s happening at the club. | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:43 - Aug 24 with 2181 views | tony_roch975 |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:34 - Aug 24 by 442Dale |
Of course there is the chance some can’t attend the forum, but if they have a particular question, nice or not, the club have already said they can be sent in advance via the Trust:
https://rochdaleafc.co.uk/fans
Have always struggled to comprehend why fans forums are seen as anything but a chance to get answers on something supporters may feel strongly about.
If that opportunity isn’t taken, there’s no point going on afterwards about a situation where you might want a better understanding of what’s happening at the club. |
For a start & to avoid duplication (I can't be there):-
Was it a good idea to try and introduce a new formation in a reduced pre-season window with a successful but unproven at EFL2 squad?
Could the newly acquired wingers play wingback positions?
In a 4:4:2 type formation who are our best No 10s?
Where will goals come from in whichever formation?
Please amend/add to | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:50 - Aug 24 with 2139 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:43 - Aug 24 by tony_roch975 |
For a start & to avoid duplication (I can't be there):-
Was it a good idea to try and introduce a new formation in a reduced pre-season window with a successful but unproven at EFL2 squad?
Could the newly acquired wingers play wingback positions?
In a 4:4:2 type formation who are our best No 10s?
Where will goals come from in whichever formation?
Please amend/add to |
Would send them via the Trust email address on the story! | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 15:48 - Aug 24 with 1934 views | EllDale |
I think we need to avoid thinking that this team is the side that won promotion.
There’s no Whatmuff, Gordon or Beckwith/Perry for a start.
I’m tempted to think that if they’d been available on Saturday it may have been a different result because their replacements on the day were nothing like as good. | | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 16:18 - Aug 24 with 1865 views | tony_roch975 |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 13:50 - Aug 24 by 442Dale |
Would send them via the Trust email address on the story! |
I was suggesting we compile a set of questions first rather than sending similar/duplicate ones? | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 17:06 - Aug 24 with 1758 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 16:18 - Aug 24 by tony_roch975 |
I was suggesting we compile a set of questions first rather than sending similar/duplicate ones? |
To be fair, when they’ve read questions out on the night before they’ve tended to ensure any duplicated questions are covered. Would send them in because I’ve yet to attend a forum where they’ve said “we haven’t got time to ask all the questions received”. | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 17:39 - Aug 24 with 1689 views | Dale_4_Life |
Its been a horrible August.. it could easily get worse on Saturday so all the strength and reserves we have as supporters are required.
We have yet to play a game when we conceded less than 2 goals. Pre season, Cup games and the two league games. This needs fixing quickly because there will be only rare occasions we will score 3 or more.
Its over to IW / CM and the players to learn and step up quickly so we can start to be competitive and pick up our first points. | | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 18:42 - Aug 24 with 1553 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 17:39 - Aug 24 by Dale_4_Life |
Its been a horrible August.. it could easily get worse on Saturday so all the strength and reserves we have as supporters are required.
We have yet to play a game when we conceded less than 2 goals. Pre season, Cup games and the two league games. This needs fixing quickly because there will be only rare occasions we will score 3 or more.
Its over to IW / CM and the players to learn and step up quickly so we can start to be competitive and pick up our first points. |
It’ll be a year to the weekend when we made eleven changes at Brackley.
As that led to a record points haul and a Wembley win, Watson knows what he needs to do. | |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 19:14 - Aug 24 with 1462 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 18:42 - Aug 24 by 442Dale |
It’ll be a year to the weekend when we made eleven changes at Brackley.
As that led to a record points haul and a Wembley win, Watson knows what he needs to do. |
* having just scored 8 goals in the opening 3 games collecting 9 points…. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 19:45 - Aug 24 with 1385 views | pnc4eva1 |
The main problem I have witnessed is going forward is that Mani D is isolated. On Saturday he won plenty of headers, held the ball up relatively well but there was no one feeding on the scraps. When Brown cut inside he was able to link up with Mani and things looked promising.
The main irritation I had was the wthe team selection, or to put it more accurately the position players were placed in. Brown would have been better played in a 5 - 3 - 1 - 1 formation or a. 3 5 1 1 formation. That way he could feed off Mani |  |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 23:47 - Aug 24 with 1111 views | dingdangblue |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 17:39 - Aug 24 by Dale_4_Life |
Its been a horrible August.. it could easily get worse on Saturday so all the strength and reserves we have as supporters are required.
We have yet to play a game when we conceded less than 2 goals. Pre season, Cup games and the two league games. This needs fixing quickly because there will be only rare occasions we will score 3 or more.
Its over to IW / CM and the players to learn and step up quickly so we can start to be competitive and pick up our first points. |
Can they learn and step up quickly though? What if they just aren't good enough. On first impressions last Saturday Ramming, Wilson and Sherring all look like very poor signings if you want a solid defence. |  |
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| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 06:15 - Aug 25 with 969 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Rochdale v Crawley Town on 23:47 - Aug 24 by dingdangblue |
Can they learn and step up quickly though? What if they just aren't good enough. On first impressions last Saturday Ramming, Wilson and Sherring all look like very poor signings if you want a solid defence. |
Keeper aside, they were signed as squad players. Put Beckwith, Bilongo and perhaps Maguire in their places and we'll see whether our first choices are more solid - which then impacts the keeper's confidence too
McNulty never had to play a second-string defence against a fit and fast forward line (although he chose to against Brackley, who weren't fit and fast but still beat us...)
This is what Watson is having to deal with and puts the rest of the team under pressure. We can't judge him until he can field something like his preferred XI, and that could include Pettit, Hayes, Jenkins i.e. half his side is missing. I'd defy any of you to perform well with one arm and one leg tied up, in front of an expectant crowd [Post edited 25 Aug 9:33]
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