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I don't know if anyone else saw the ghost soldiers in Manchester today? What a fantastic, if that's the right word, idea/exhibition. Just walking along to pick a sandwich and there was a battalion of first world war soldiers stood there near St. Anne's Square looking apprehensive. The actors were great by the way. I stood there to look and take it in and one of them came up and handed me a card with the words "Captain Stanley Kenworthy 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment Died at the Somme on 1st July 1916 Aged 32 years."
A wonderfully humiliating experience and the best bit of art I've ever witnessed. You have been remembered Captain Kenworthy.
An often used line. Lions? Certainly. Donkeys? Over the course of the war that's debatable. Planning and strategy was certainly more complex and advanced than the 'walk in a straight line to your death' myth paints. This was a time when strategies like Blitzkreig, the deployment of tanks, spy planes etc was all first successfully introduced.
Having said that the Somme (particularly Day 1) can be seen as disaster.
An often used line. Lions? Certainly. Donkeys? Over the course of the war that's debatable. Planning and strategy was certainly more complex and advanced than the 'walk in a straight line to your death' myth paints. This was a time when strategies like Blitzkreig, the deployment of tanks, spy planes etc was all first successfully introduced.
Having said that the Somme (particularly Day 1) can be seen as disaster.
I am talking about the specific Battle of the Somme beginning. Maybe after the initial disaster, the leaders got their act together. Just criminal that so many had to lose their lives due to the imcompetance of the so called leaders.
I will be honest and say my knowledge of war tactics is not very good.
I don't know if anyone else saw the ghost soldiers in Manchester today? What a fantastic, if that's the right word, idea/exhibition. Just walking along to pick a sandwich and there was a battalion of first world war soldiers stood there near St. Anne's Square looking apprehensive. The actors were great by the way. I stood there to look and take it in and one of them came up and handed me a card with the words "Captain Stanley Kenworthy 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment Died at the Somme on 1st July 1916 Aged 32 years."
A wonderfully humiliating experience and the best bit of art I've ever witnessed. You have been remembered Captain Kenworthy.
[Post edited 1 Jul 2016 18:49]
Without doubt the most heart rending moving yet dignified tribute I have ever seen. Simply stunning...
I am talking about the specific Battle of the Somme beginning. Maybe after the initial disaster, the leaders got their act together. Just criminal that so many had to lose their lives due to the imcompetance of the so called leaders.
I will be honest and say my knowledge of war tactics is not very good.
My knowledge of war tactics isn't very good either, but I reckon I'd have thought it was a poor idea to blow a load of very loud whistles to alert our lads they needed to abandon their cover, climb out of the trenches, and walk towards the waiting enemy who had machine guns.
After 20,000 died on the first use of this tactic, I'm certain I'd have thought it was a very poor tactic by day 2.
And I'm not a war person nor do I have my war badges!
My knowledge of war tactics isn't very good either, but I reckon I'd have thought it was a poor idea to blow a load of very loud whistles to alert our lads they needed to abandon their cover, climb out of the trenches, and walk towards the waiting enemy who had machine guns.
After 20,000 died on the first use of this tactic, I'm certain I'd have thought it was a very poor tactic by day 2.
And I'm not a war person nor do I have my war badges!
I agree
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Driving around this morning listening to radio 5 who dedicated a few hours to the battle and what a time of reflection that was. The fattest rats you've ever seen after gorging on the multitude of dead bodies, fields full of maggots,it really brought it home.
We are the lucky ones, living through relatively peaceful times. None of our kids having to go and fight on the front line, a lot of them were just mates who wanted to help out, literally cannon fodder. It makes you realise how lucky we are are, we've got bugger all to moan about and should thank our lucky stars. Worrying for decades about the Dale staying in the Football League is a bit pathetic in the full scheme of things, it's ridiculous.
Driving around this morning listening to radio 5 who dedicated a few hours to the battle and what a time of reflection that was. The fattest rats you've ever seen after gorging on the multitude of dead bodies, fields full of maggots,it really brought it home.
We are the lucky ones, living through relatively peaceful times. None of our kids having to go and fight on the front line, a lot of them were just mates who wanted to help out, literally cannon fodder. It makes you realise how lucky we are are, we've got bugger all to moan about and should thank our lucky stars. Worrying for decades about the Dale staying in the Football League is a bit pathetic in the full scheme of things, it's ridiculous.
No it's not.
I thank those who gave their lives for me to spend all those decades worrying about the Dale. Without them, we'd never have had a club.
The artillery bombardment that preceded 1st July 1916 lasted a week, non stop. Over a quarter of a million shells were fired at the German lines (some still being found, unexploded) and when the advance came, our generals had every reason to believe it'd be a walk across undefended territory.
They were wrong.
The portrayal of WW1 soldiers in Manc today was a brilliant concept (thanks for describing it BDMC) - wish I'd seen it. What i hated was the chaplain delivering his sermon in Manc cathedral and using the words "they died in vain" What a tw@t. They did not.
At no point during the Somme however were soldiers ordered to walk across no-mans land, many simply chose to because of supreme confidence (due to the previous weeks bombing) or because of the sheer weight of many rucksacks which troops were forced to carry.
Many myths of WW1 are still used in society frequently today, for example the 'it'll be over by Christmas' line was never seriously considererd by top Government officials-If it was why would they actively seek to expand their army with conscripts (which needed at least 3 months training) with the 'Your country needs you' posters?
The artillery bombardment that preceded 1st July 1916 lasted a week, non stop. Over a quarter of a million shells were fired at the German lines (some still being found, unexploded) and when the advance came, our generals had every reason to believe it'd be a walk across undefended territory.
They were wrong.
The portrayal of WW1 soldiers in Manc today was a brilliant concept (thanks for describing it BDMC) - wish I'd seen it. What i hated was the chaplain delivering his sermon in Manc cathedral and using the words "they died in vain" What a tw@t. They did not.
One General was so confident he was seen kicking a football over no-man's land!
I have the death plaque of my mums Uncle Hugh Taylor, don't know where he died, all I know is their gun blew up. So I think he was in the artillery.
If you write to the ministry of defence with details of his full name, date of birth and anything else you know about him they will trace him in their records and provide you with details of where he died and where he is buried, if those details are known. They will also provide any unclaimed medals.
I did this for my dads records. He was in the eigth army in North Africa in WW2 and survived but never spoke about his experience and never claimed his medals before he died. The medals arrived just before my mother passed away.
Two books;The Manchester Pals,and The Salford Pals,are well worth a read if you can still get them. Both written by Michael Stedman,The Salford Pals is more about the Lancashire Fusiliers,many Rochdale blokes being mentioned. My late father provided several items for Stedman to include in The Manchester Pals book,his father,who was badly wounded in 1915,joined up with twenty Pals,of whom only three survived the war. Dad wrote an epitaph on the front page;"This is a book of noble patriotism,Of an age gone by,Of rich and poor men,In comradeship went to war,Left all that was dear to them,Of deep suffering and endurance,Treat this book with reverence,Most of all with remembrance." I think it says it all.
I don't know if anyone else saw the ghost soldiers in Manchester today? What a fantastic, if that's the right word, idea/exhibition. Just walking along to pick a sandwich and there was a battalion of first world war soldiers stood there near St. Anne's Square looking apprehensive. The actors were great by the way. I stood there to look and take it in and one of them came up and handed me a card with the words "Captain Stanley Kenworthy 17th Battalion Manchester Regiment Died at the Somme on 1st July 1916 Aged 32 years."
A wonderfully humiliating experience and the best bit of art I've ever witnessed. You have been remembered Captain Kenworthy.
[Post edited 1 Jul 2016 18:49]
Thanks for relating. Not having a dig - just curious - did you mean humiliating or humbling?
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