| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? 16:37 - Aug 16 with 18292 views | beat_the_bishop |
Interestingly, scanning across various teams set up, including Stockport, York, Oldham, Salford and Barnet (and many others) all have a back four.
I know the general consensus is to revert to a 3 and wingbacks either side and I full understand why… it seems the trend at the moment is a 4 which if we pursue it, I do wonder how we would look along the lines of the below…
Ramming
Moss Ebanks Maguire Beckwith
Petit
Smith Gilmour Hayes
East
Mani
Obviously the above is based on fitness and availability.
With the squad as it as today and injuries and as others have mentioned just familiarity I would go...
Ramming
Moss Ebanks Wilson
Tar Hannant
Gilmour
Duberry East
Brown
Mani D
The above still doesn’t fill me with confidence but I think it’s more likely to sure us up a bit.
Wilson hasn’t impressed me on his brief cameos but he needs a start and go from there.
Hendo for brown if he isn’t happy in the 10 after 60 minutes.
What would others do?
[Post edited 16 Aug 16:38]
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 12:44 - Aug 18 with 3669 views | sxdale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 12:24 - Aug 18 by TalkingSutty |
Some would say it sums me up also 🤣 |
Or anybody with a difference of opinion to Mr Alien  |  | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 13:14 - Aug 18 with 3546 views | D_Alien |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 12:44 - Aug 18 by sxdale |
Or anybody with a difference of opinion to Mr Alien |
Spot on!
That's practically everyone... |  |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 14:50 - Aug 18 with 3320 views | EllDale |
If we’re comparing Dale’s preseason with that of Newport don’t forget that they had a change of manager as well after Fuchs walked out at short notice which must have disrupted their preparation too. | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 15:13 - Aug 18 with 3258 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 14:50 - Aug 18 by EllDale |
If we’re comparing Dale’s preseason with that of Newport don’t forget that they had a change of manager as well after Fuchs walked out at short notice which must have disrupted their preparation too. |
Yep, plenty of comparisons. York being a lovely one too and they got the win against all the odds.
Preseason for me is irrelevant, for example, I can’t recall or remember a single result or performance from any preseason prior to this one.
The fact we got beat on Saturday and the manner of it has left us looking for reasons. Simply put, the reasons are merely down to one thing and one thing only… the players not turning up.
As much as IW obviously takes the overall responsibility and people need to blame somebody. The lack of effort and desire to atleast win their duels and run harder wasn’t there. You can’t blame formations on that. The players must take some responsibility. Whatever the formation was or could’ve been there’s some basics and they didn’t do it.
I’m putting it down to a bad day at the office. And trusting Watson that it won’t happen again as he says.. we now need to focus on Saturday and positive. It could’ve been a freak performance and result. All teams have them and we had ours on the opening day.
We desperately need to see some of the injured players return though. A moment of magic is sometimes what gets the wheels in motion, that will be coming from Hayes or Smith I would imagine. And update on the latter would be nice… [Post edited 18 Aug 15:15]
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 15:23 - Aug 18 with 3226 views | 442Dale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 15:13 - Aug 18 by beat_the_bishop |
Yep, plenty of comparisons. York being a lovely one too and they got the win against all the odds.
Preseason for me is irrelevant, for example, I can’t recall or remember a single result or performance from any preseason prior to this one.
The fact we got beat on Saturday and the manner of it has left us looking for reasons. Simply put, the reasons are merely down to one thing and one thing only… the players not turning up.
As much as IW obviously takes the overall responsibility and people need to blame somebody. The lack of effort and desire to atleast win their duels and run harder wasn’t there. You can’t blame formations on that. The players must take some responsibility. Whatever the formation was or could’ve been there’s some basics and they didn’t do it.
I’m putting it down to a bad day at the office. And trusting Watson that it won’t happen again as he says.. we now need to focus on Saturday and positive. It could’ve been a freak performance and result. All teams have them and we had ours on the opening day.
We desperately need to see some of the injured players return though. A moment of magic is sometimes what gets the wheels in motion, that will be coming from Hayes or Smith I would imagine. And update on the latter would be nice… [Post edited 18 Aug 15:15]
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Without wanting to say the situations are in any way the same, it is worth looking at how York did on Saturday after three weeks with a new manager after Maynard’s departure.
It is a complete guess (as it would be by any fan who isn’t at the training ground/with players) but you’d think the York squad would have been less than happy at what happened when Maynard left. The bond they had and after spending most of the pre-season planning for their return to the league, it all changed suddenly.
They were apparently awful against Crawley in the League Cup, but then responded well against a Bristol Rovers team who many fancied. The one thing the new manager did to retain some continuity was retain the same formation. The players were able to play their game within a familiar structure, irrespective of outside noise.
Now of course there’s a lot more to winning games than formations and tactics, but this thread was specifically looking at that aspect and if looking at different ways to setup will improve individual and team performance, it should be looked at. I’d expect any manager to be doing that. |  |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 16:17 - Aug 18 with 3109 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 15:23 - Aug 18 by 442Dale |
Without wanting to say the situations are in any way the same, it is worth looking at how York did on Saturday after three weeks with a new manager after Maynard’s departure.
It is a complete guess (as it would be by any fan who isn’t at the training ground/with players) but you’d think the York squad would have been less than happy at what happened when Maynard left. The bond they had and after spending most of the pre-season planning for their return to the league, it all changed suddenly.
They were apparently awful against Crawley in the League Cup, but then responded well against a Bristol Rovers team who many fancied. The one thing the new manager did to retain some continuity was retain the same formation. The players were able to play their game within a familiar structure, irrespective of outside noise.
Now of course there’s a lot more to winning games than formations and tactics, but this thread was specifically looking at that aspect and if looking at different ways to setup will improve individual and team performance, it should be looked at. I’d expect any manager to be doing that. |
I must admit I expected them to get beat. I did see a clip on Ollie Banks post game highlights and his passing array is actually silly, well worth a watch. Unlike Gilmour and East, he was playing with an aura about him with a point to prove because he was one of the big discussion points on the management change. Basically Uggla and his new manager believe he is a holding midfielder and a magician at that. Whereby Maynard maybe wanted to use him differently. Little-behold, he had a stormer! Very courageous and audacious at times… none of that ‘safe option’ crap we have witnessed.
Hoping Adeeko can add some real energy and legs in there. Interestingly the Wigan fans said he likes a safe ball sideways and backwards but if he finds a blue shirt and we retain possession and build from it then I’ll take that. Yes that’s the ‘safe option crap’ but, BUT, provided the other two are in strong positions to break the lines and turn towards the opposition’s goal and looking to strike some partnerships with the wingers and front line then I am happy rather than all trying and failing at the same thing. We played with our back to their goal for 90 minutes on Saturday.
If Watson goes three at the back on Saturday it will be interesting. I certainly look forward to the team announcement a circa 1:45pm and the debate to follow in the stands.
I’m going for a 2-1 win with a Hendo lob on 83 mins to win it. [Post edited 18 Aug 16:24]
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 17:20 - Aug 18 with 2986 views | Edindale |
Watched the second half and both teams were excellent full of pace and attacking intent -it could easily have been 4-4. On a different planet to our match. Banks was good as ironically was Newby who changed the game for York. Both sides were so fluid that formations seemed to be secondary.
Crawley will be difficult to beat, but we will not do it without attacking intent and a no fear attitude. TAR, Duberry and Hannant will need to be creative and hopefully provide chances for Mani, Rodney and Brown. We are shaky at the back but our attacking in the last game was extremely poor.
Hopefully the squad will click this week and we see a big improvement.
UTD | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:10 - Aug 18 with 2903 views | Dale_4_Life |
IW and CM are not going to tear up there own playbook after 1 league game.
They both will have seen what we saw and its obvious that they need to work on the set up and game plan and the players know it backwards..
Both goals first half came from hesitancy.. why is that?.
I think the first goal is worse the Newport Scorer could not believe he was in acres of space on the 6 yard line.
The second not much better .. poor poor clearance and then no desire to be first to the cross to clear it from danger.
It could be the kick up the backside for a few and a re-set for our opening home game on Saturday.
Another capitulation will obvioulsy raise eyebrows amongst the Dale support. | | | |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:17 - Aug 18 with 2880 views | 442Dale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:10 - Aug 18 by Dale_4_Life |
IW and CM are not going to tear up there own playbook after 1 league game.
They both will have seen what we saw and its obvious that they need to work on the set up and game plan and the players know it backwards..
Both goals first half came from hesitancy.. why is that?.
I think the first goal is worse the Newport Scorer could not believe he was in acres of space on the 6 yard line.
The second not much better .. poor poor clearance and then no desire to be first to the cross to clear it from danger.
It could be the kick up the backside for a few and a re-set for our opening home game on Saturday.
Another capitulation will obvioulsy raise eyebrows amongst the Dale support. |
First goal was because Hannant didn’t come out with the rest and played him on. It should still have been dealt with but he’d have been miles offside. Basics. | |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:46 - Aug 18 with 2798 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:17 - Aug 18 by 442Dale |
First goal was because Hannant didn’t come out with the rest and played him on. It should still have been dealt with but he’d have been miles offside. Basics. |
I agree he was caught napping. Do you think the keepers feeble attempt at a save was down to the fact he was hoping the flag went up? Or generally a lack of conviction in his decision along with the second?
One thing I do not want to see on Saturday is Rodney in the 11. Not many deserve a start after Saturday but he needs some time out the bench.
I think York and Bristol Rovers will finish in the top 8, York were far better equipped for this league man for man but when you are beating Notts County for a RWB from Southend purely not to loose out and throwing money at it just because of being mocked on Twitter it’s not something we should or could compete with. To justify Ugglas behaviour the chap scored two of course - smug git! | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 19:20 - Aug 18 with 2738 views | 442Dale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 18:46 - Aug 18 by beat_the_bishop |
I agree he was caught napping. Do you think the keepers feeble attempt at a save was down to the fact he was hoping the flag went up? Or generally a lack of conviction in his decision along with the second?
One thing I do not want to see on Saturday is Rodney in the 11. Not many deserve a start after Saturday but he needs some time out the bench.
I think York and Bristol Rovers will finish in the top 8, York were far better equipped for this league man for man but when you are beating Notts County for a RWB from Southend purely not to loose out and throwing money at it just because of being mocked on Twitter it’s not something we should or could compete with. To justify Ugglas behaviour the chap scored two of course - smug git! |
Ramming was definitely distracted by where players were, both Hannant and their scorer. He should have concentrated on dealing with the ball. That’s where young players learn. | |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 12:38 - Aug 24 with 2024 views | beat_the_bishop |
So, I would suggest majority of us were happy with reverting to a more familiar formation. Unfortunately, IW somehow managed to miss the trick a little with a very unbalanced version.
What does he do now? Saturday feels like a really big ‘moment’. We are leaking goals for fun and not scoring or creating. So, do you try and just get a clean sheet at all costs? Or do you try and outscore the opposition? If it’s the latter, surely we have to start will Duberry and Jonny Smith?
I would also drop Mani D as others have mentioned and play Brown in that role. Atleast the defenders will feel like they’ve had a game. | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 13:06 - Aug 24 with 1943 views | NorthernDale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 12:38 - Aug 24 by beat_the_bishop |
So, I would suggest majority of us were happy with reverting to a more familiar formation. Unfortunately, IW somehow managed to miss the trick a little with a very unbalanced version.
What does he do now? Saturday feels like a really big ‘moment’. We are leaking goals for fun and not scoring or creating. So, do you try and just get a clean sheet at all costs? Or do you try and outscore the opposition? If it’s the latter, surely we have to start will Duberry and Jonny Smith?
I would also drop Mani D as others have mentioned and play Brown in that role. Atleast the defenders will feel like they’ve had a game. |
Totally agree, I think three at the back works for us generally, I agree that playing players out of position didn't help on Saturday. With the injuries and players missing, I would play Moss, EEL and Bilongo at the back, with TAR at right back and Hannant at left back. Moss and EEL would hopefully add a bit of stability and Bilongo the pace at the back.
I also agree that I would have Brown up front, instead of Mani and Silcott-Dulberry in the No 10 role or even Smith in that role.
However, I fear that IW will persist with square pegs in round holes approach or with Wilson & Sherring, despite questions being asked by the fans about their perforances. | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 13:21 - Aug 24 with 1908 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 13:06 - Aug 24 by NorthernDale |
Totally agree, I think three at the back works for us generally, I agree that playing players out of position didn't help on Saturday. With the injuries and players missing, I would play Moss, EEL and Bilongo at the back, with TAR at right back and Hannant at left back. Moss and EEL would hopefully add a bit of stability and Bilongo the pace at the back.
I also agree that I would have Brown up front, instead of Mani and Silcott-Dulberry in the No 10 role or even Smith in that role.
However, I fear that IW will persist with square pegs in round holes approach or with Wilson & Sherring, despite questions being asked by the fans about their perforances. |
Surely your suggestion is the best…
Firstly, they are all familiar with each other. Second of all, an opportunity to demonstrate they deserve their place over the new signings.
I must say, there was a ball over the top from Crawley on Saturday that started a sprint race between Wilson and their striker. He set off ahead of him and ended up behind him. Fortunately it went out for a goal kick in the end but I was shocked at how get got left for dust. But, sort of wondered if he was actually awake and alert to the danger hence looking slower. The pace of the players on show from Newport and Crawley is excactly what we are lacking. We can’t act surprised either because Boreham Wood had the same approach and we got away with that one.
Balls over the top down our channels were an issue towards the end of last season, and even more so now!
Hendo to then come on with more than 6 minutes to go in the No.10 role. His movement and craft is needed. He also knows how to buy a foul which we seem to be victim to far too often.
Gilmour needs dropping too. Adeeko needs a start, he can’t do any worse.
So I am with you.
Ramming
Moss Ebanks Bilongo
TAR Hannant
Adeeko
Francis East
ZW-D
Brown
It’s not got a lot of height in that team. Set plays could be an issue. [Post edited 24 Aug 13:23]
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 14:53 - Aug 25 with 1520 views | Edindale |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 13:21 - Aug 24 by beat_the_bishop |
Surely your suggestion is the best…
Firstly, they are all familiar with each other. Second of all, an opportunity to demonstrate they deserve their place over the new signings.
I must say, there was a ball over the top from Crawley on Saturday that started a sprint race between Wilson and their striker. He set off ahead of him and ended up behind him. Fortunately it went out for a goal kick in the end but I was shocked at how get got left for dust. But, sort of wondered if he was actually awake and alert to the danger hence looking slower. The pace of the players on show from Newport and Crawley is excactly what we are lacking. We can’t act surprised either because Boreham Wood had the same approach and we got away with that one.
Balls over the top down our channels were an issue towards the end of last season, and even more so now!
Hendo to then come on with more than 6 minutes to go in the No.10 role. His movement and craft is needed. He also knows how to buy a foul which we seem to be victim to far too often.
Gilmour needs dropping too. Adeeko needs a start, he can’t do any worse.
So I am with you.
Ramming
Moss Ebanks Bilongo
TAR Hannant
Adeeko
Francis East
ZW-D
Brown
It’s not got a lot of height in that team. Set plays could be an issue. [Post edited 24 Aug 13:23]
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Looks like a much more balanced and solid formation.
Surely there will be a place for Taylor in the side replacing Francis or East. Hopefully Smith will also get some minutes. | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 20:43 - Aug 25 with 1260 views | EllDale |
Were Jamie Allen and Brandon Williams really training at the open day or is it AI generated fake news? | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 21:06 - Aug 25 with 1226 views | dingdangblue |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 20:43 - Aug 25 by EllDale |
Were Jamie Allen and Brandon Williams really training at the open day or is it AI generated fake news? |
Could do with Craig Dawson to solve both defensive frailties and attacking threat! |  |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 21:21 - Aug 25 with 1201 views | TVOS1907 |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 20:43 - Aug 25 by EllDale |
Were Jamie Allen and Brandon Williams really training at the open day or is it AI generated fake news? |
They were. |  |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 21:33 - Aug 25 with 1159 views | EllDale |
Thanks | | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 09:49 - Aug 26 with 871 views | isitme |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 21:21 - Aug 25 by TVOS1907 |
They were. |
Were Rodney, Maguire and Beckwith training? |  | | |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 09:59 - Aug 26 with 847 views | TVOS1907 |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 09:49 - Aug 26 by isitme |
Were Rodney, Maguire and Beckwith training? |
Beckwith was signing autographs, but I can't recall if he was training or not.
Never saw the other two, but I wasn't taking too much notice of who was sat on the sidelines. | |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:19 - Aug 26 with 800 views | dingdangblue |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 09:49 - Aug 26 by isitme |
Were Rodney, Maguire and Beckwith training? |
Rodney was in the photo's. I'm pretty sure he's not injured - think Watson said post match that he's the first to miss out on a matchday squad this season i.e. fit but not selected. | |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:21 - Aug 26 with 795 views | Nerazzurri |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:19 - Aug 26 by dingdangblue |
Rodney was in the photo's. I'm pretty sure he's not injured - think Watson said post match that he's the first to miss out on a matchday squad this season i.e. fit but not selected. |
He said in one of the interviews that he'd been playing through pain & had an injection last week to try & play through it but couldn't finish the training session on Friday so he missed out. |  |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:40 - Aug 26 with 742 views | DaleiLama |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:21 - Aug 26 by Nerazzurri |
He said in one of the interviews that he'd been playing through pain & had an injection last week to try & play through it but couldn't finish the training session on Friday so he missed out. |
He's not been able to finish for quite a while sadly. |  |
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| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:42 - Aug 26 with 739 views | TVOS1907 |
| Formation Conundrum - Fans Choices? on 10:19 - Aug 26 by dingdangblue |
Rodney was in the photo's. I'm pretty sure he's not injured - think Watson said post match that he's the first to miss out on a matchday squad this season i.e. fit but not selected. |
He's not on any of these photos. Are there some others?
https://rochdaleafc.co.uk/gall
[Post edited 26 Aug 10:49]
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| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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