| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale 09:00 - Dec 24 with 5173 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:22 - Dec 26 with 1880 views | nordenblue |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:14 - Dec 26 by 442Dale |
That tactic is part of how we play, it might be frustrating at times but the players know exactly what they’re doing. There are plenty of examples this season of how it’s resulted in a goal.
Note the Savage interview today. He’s taking responsibility apparently… yet still blaming players. |
I know exactly why its done but not sure what turning backwards allowing the opposition then re set and mark up ever helps us. I also noticed Morecambe do exactly the same too and its boring as sin to watch, their centre back,keeper and number 8 dropping deep touched the ball more than anyone on the pitch and usually totally unchallenged or pressed to even force a pass, its weird how the games gone from where I sit. | | | |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:28 - Dec 26 with 1828 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:22 - Dec 26 by nordenblue |
I know exactly why its done but not sure what turning backwards allowing the opposition then re set and mark up ever helps us. I also noticed Morecambe do exactly the same too and its boring as sin to watch, their centre back,keeper and number 8 dropping deep touched the ball more than anyone on the pitch and usually totally unchallenged or pressed to even force a pass, its weird how the games gone from where I sit. |
That's probably doing sin a disservice. Sin is more interesting, but the outcome is usually worse
Providing Dale keep picking up 3 points (17 out of 21, wow) all sins are forgiven |  |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:28 - Dec 26 with 1821 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:22 - Dec 26 by nordenblue |
I know exactly why its done but not sure what turning backwards allowing the opposition then re set and mark up ever helps us. I also noticed Morecambe do exactly the same too and its boring as sin to watch, their centre back,keeper and number 8 dropping deep touched the ball more than anyone on the pitch and usually totally unchallenged or pressed to even force a pass, its weird how the games gone from where I sit. |
The game has undoubtedly changed over the last few years. Whilst we continue to retain the ball by going sideways and backwards, what we have done is added better players and developed different options when we do it. The amount of times we got in behind today after playing forward suddenly from the back was very noticeable in the first half.
TAR benefits from it a lot - see the third goal at Altrincham - and McBride should have scored today from that ball into him but he decided to try and pass. We’ve perfected how to shift the opposition to open up areas further forward, the East/TAR/Gordon triumvirate are where we benefit most from it at present after the opposition are drawn in by us going backwards or sideways. |  |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:35 - Dec 26 with 1791 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:28 - Dec 26 by D_Alien |
That's probably doing sin a disservice. Sin is more interesting, but the outcome is usually worse
Providing Dale keep picking up 3 points (17 out of 21, wow) all sins are forgiven |
It was said the boring football would keep fans away when we were going for promotion last season, in reality it was always a results business. As a team, Dale have evolved to ensure the preferred way of playing is both effective and, more often than not, quite entertaining.
At Spotland, we’ve been getting consistent results for two seasons now, adding that on the road is capitalising on what home fans witness each week. | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:46 - Dec 26 with 1730 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:35 - Dec 26 by 442Dale |
It was said the boring football would keep fans away when we were going for promotion last season, in reality it was always a results business. As a team, Dale have evolved to ensure the preferred way of playing is both effective and, more often than not, quite entertaining.
At Spotland, we’ve been getting consistent results for two seasons now, adding that on the road is capitalising on what home fans witness each week. |
By and large, fans will go through the exit gates feeling upbeat when there's another 3 points on the board, so there's a shift in perception this season and the results just can't be gainsaid
We're doing less of the turning back when forward momentum is possible. That's probably due to players becoming more familiar with the system and better players having the ability to take the right option and execute it
In addition, the use of subs is far better than it has been. All of this is due to the strength of the management team, with JM at the head of that team | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:49 - Dec 26 with 1715 views | nordenblue |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:28 - Dec 26 by 442Dale |
The game has undoubtedly changed over the last few years. Whilst we continue to retain the ball by going sideways and backwards, what we have done is added better players and developed different options when we do it. The amount of times we got in behind today after playing forward suddenly from the back was very noticeable in the first half.
TAR benefits from it a lot - see the third goal at Altrincham - and McBride should have scored today from that ball into him but he decided to try and pass. We’ve perfected how to shift the opposition to open up areas further forward, the East/TAR/Gordon triumvirate are where we benefit most from it at present after the opposition are drawn in by us going backwards or sideways. |
I know you're a massive advocate for it but weirdly you can also 'retain the ball' going forwards too you dont have to go 'sideways and backwards' to keep hold of the ball,neither do I expect us all guns blazing gunning forwards all the time at any expense either.
A quick forward pass when we turn the ball over in the centre of the pitch to break can catch the opposition out of position just as much as going backwards with 14 passes first, I just felt we didnt mix it up anywhere near enough which lead to a very static predicable performance, thankfully two clinical finishes separated the sides in a game in all honesty Morecambe more than deserved a point from. | | | |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:57 - Dec 26 with 1649 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:46 - Dec 26 by D_Alien |
By and large, fans will go through the exit gates feeling upbeat when there's another 3 points on the board, so there's a shift in perception this season and the results just can't be gainsaid
We're doing less of the turning back when forward momentum is possible. That's probably due to players becoming more familiar with the system and better players having the ability to take the right option and execute it
In addition, the use of subs is far better than it has been. All of this is due to the strength of the management team, with JM at the head of that team |
Yeah, that familiarity is what Gilmour has mentioned in interviews. Those who’ve been here that long have been committed to the system and way of playing for three seasons. It’s taken time, building the squad and a lot of patience. We might not all agree with it all of the time, there’s plenty of times I haven’t and still don’t, but it’s obvious that the manager, his staff and the team are all in with it.
The almost 2 points a game at home last season, improved on this year with a stellar away record has most certainly backed up the results business theory. It’s also another example of how going all Carlisle (or Savage) when we do stumble, as could have happened today, won’t help. | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:01 - Dec 26 with 1634 views | Daley_Lama |
Well played Morecambe, unlucky on the result.
Whether we were under-par or Morecambe made us under-par with their work rate and strategy is irrelevant in term of points, but relevant in terms of game assessment.
Their keeper had a blinder, Hendo header first half, 2 pens, Smith shot, Waller header and that was the only difference in the end, the chances we created to day were good shots/chances - theirs perhaps not so.
Gutsy wins should be lauded as much as dominant wins and that is what we got today. |  |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:04 - Dec 26 with 1625 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:49 - Dec 26 by nordenblue |
I know you're a massive advocate for it but weirdly you can also 'retain the ball' going forwards too you dont have to go 'sideways and backwards' to keep hold of the ball,neither do I expect us all guns blazing gunning forwards all the time at any expense either.
A quick forward pass when we turn the ball over in the centre of the pitch to break can catch the opposition out of position just as much as going backwards with 14 passes first, I just felt we didnt mix it up anywhere near enough which lead to a very static predicable performance, thankfully two clinical finishes separated the sides in a game in all honesty Morecambe more than deserved a point from. |
I’m not a massive advocate for it. My posts over the year should (hopefully!) reflect that I prefer attacking, effective football. Right now, with the way we retain the ball and play so cleverly in a tactical way, we are also capable of switching it up by going more direct leading to decent football and decent results. We got in behind twice early on down the right due to this. Two poor crosses by TAR spoilt it though.
It’s reached the stage that seeing a group of players who obviously enjoy playing in a particular style whilst getting results is what matters, even if I might find parts of that frustrating.
There’s enough Dale teams down the years who have had plenty more faults and not been anywhere near as successful as this one! | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:09 - Dec 26 with 1611 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 19:57 - Dec 26 by 442Dale |
Yeah, that familiarity is what Gilmour has mentioned in interviews. Those who’ve been here that long have been committed to the system and way of playing for three seasons. It’s taken time, building the squad and a lot of patience. We might not all agree with it all of the time, there’s plenty of times I haven’t and still don’t, but it’s obvious that the manager, his staff and the team are all in with it.
The almost 2 points a game at home last season, improved on this year with a stellar away record has most certainly backed up the results business theory. It’s also another example of how going all Carlisle (or Savage) when we do stumble, as could have happened today, won’t help. |
At 75 minutes, i was thinking that coming away with a point was still pretty good
In fact, it'd have kept us top of the league, as subsequent results turned out
What's been most impressive is achieving these last two away wins without Mani
Hendo and McBride, despite the inexperience of the latter, somehow seems to have worked as a starting combo over the two games. Not quite Hendo/Done, but since many of us thought Hendo wouldn't be starting it's possible Matty Done might've seen something (or reached back into his memory) that made it the best option. Then having Smith & Rodney to take it further in the latter stages is covering the hole left by Mani [Post edited 26 Dec 20:13]
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:18 - Dec 26 with 1569 views | nordenblue |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:04 - Dec 26 by 442Dale |
I’m not a massive advocate for it. My posts over the year should (hopefully!) reflect that I prefer attacking, effective football. Right now, with the way we retain the ball and play so cleverly in a tactical way, we are also capable of switching it up by going more direct leading to decent football and decent results. We got in behind twice early on down the right due to this. Two poor crosses by TAR spoilt it though.
It’s reached the stage that seeing a group of players who obviously enjoy playing in a particular style whilst getting results is what matters, even if I might find parts of that frustrating.
There’s enough Dale teams down the years who have had plenty more faults and not been anywhere near as successful as this one! |
Ultimately its purely a result driven business and I appreciate that and the fact is its clearly working whatever my or your opinions might be, I just think there's more than one way to skin a cat and yes we do hurt teams by passing backwards in my opinion too many times, I just feel with the talented bunch of players at our disposal we're more than capable of blowing teams away playing on the front foot a bit more rather than getting into an arm wrestle down at a level where most other teams are ability wise. [Post edited 26 Dec 20:19]
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:23 - Dec 26 with 1537 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:09 - Dec 26 by D_Alien |
At 75 minutes, i was thinking that coming away with a point was still pretty good
In fact, it'd have kept us top of the league, as subsequent results turned out
What's been most impressive is achieving these last two away wins without Mani
Hendo and McBride, despite the inexperience of the latter, somehow seems to have worked as a starting combo over the two games. Not quite Hendo/Done, but since many of us thought Hendo wouldn't be starting it's possible Matty Done might've seen something (or reached back into his memory) that made it the best option. Then having Smith & Rodney to take it further in the latter stages is covering the hole left by Mani [Post edited 26 Dec 20:13]
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Henderson’s performances at no.9 at the back end of last season meant he was always an option, but a forgotten one whilst Mani stayed fit. McBride has stepped up well, even though I wish he’d have more faith in himself in front of goal. Pritchard’s ability to play in the same forward role as McBride on the opposite side has helped Henderson in that lone central striker position too, they seem to be on the same wavelength.
Pritchard’s departure at half time has been a bit overlooked because of how well Burger did, but it’s to be hoped he isn’t injured again. If nothing else because it reduces our options at LWB. | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:30 - Dec 26 with 1501 views | TalkingSutty |
Todays game threw up some real challenges for the players, missing two penalties and then conceding a soft goal at the start of the second half. I couldn't have been the only Dale fan thinking that this wasn't going to be our day. In seasons gone we wouldn't have won that game but things are different now and the players found a way to win against a very useful Morecambe team. They are in a false position. Two goals of real quality and that's the reason we deserved to win th game.
We missed Mani massively today i thought, nobody to hold up the ball and keep us in their half, occupy two of their defenders. Nobody to physically challenge their centre halves, Broome punting too many aimless balls forward to nobody. The ball kept coming back. We also missed Beckwiths defending today and hiis physical.presence and at times Broome in the goal put us under real pressure by passing the ball to players tightly marked on the edge of our area, we gained no advantage from him doing that. None of that is a surprise though, these are players of real quality, they can't just be replaced.
So i thougt today was a great effort and credit to the players for picking up the win but we are in the same scenario as last season now when we were crying out for a target man, somebody who can win the ball, hold it up and bring others into play. I'm hoping that's something that will be addressed maybe next week . [Post edited 26 Dec 20:38]
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:40 - Dec 26 with 1428 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 20:30 - Dec 26 by TalkingSutty |
Todays game threw up some real challenges for the players, missing two penalties and then conceding a soft goal at the start of the second half. I couldn't have been the only Dale fan thinking that this wasn't going to be our day. In seasons gone we wouldn't have won that game but things are different now and the players found a way to win against a very useful Morecambe team. They are in a false position. Two goals of real quality and that's the reason we deserved to win th game.
We missed Mani massively today i thought, nobody to hold up the ball and keep us in their half, occupy two of their defenders. Nobody to physically challenge their centre halves, Broome punting too many aimless balls forward to nobody. The ball kept coming back. We also missed Beckwiths defending today and hiis physical.presence and at times Broome in the goal put us under real pressure by passing the ball to players tightly marked on the edge of our area, we gained no advantage from him doing that. None of that is a surprise though, these are players of real quality, they can't just be replaced.
So i thougt today was a great effort and credit to the players for picking up the win but we are in the same scenario as last season now when we were crying out for a target man, somebody who can win the ball, hold it up and bring others into play. I'm hoping that's something that will be addressed maybe next week . [Post edited 26 Dec 20:38]
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The centre forward position does need addressing, especially as Amantchi wasn’t even on the bench today. We can’t expect Henderson to keep starting games and although he’s definitely contributed to our attacking play, we didn’t retain the ball well enough in the final third today. | |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 23:08 - Dec 26 with 1038 views | _Windydale |
There all tough fixtures now.
Everyone wants to take points from us in this league, the div's Alpha team.
He's a hustler and a workhorse, a salute to Gilmour. Worth every penny | | | |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 00:19 - Dec 27 with 937 views | dannyuk |
With the brackley farce of a game being a long and distant memory I really think this was our worst performance of the season, and the fact we came away with 3 points is huge regardless of who the opposition were. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 04:35 - Dec 27 with 809 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 00:19 - Dec 27 by dannyuk |
With the brackley farce of a game being a long and distant memory I really think this was our worst performance of the season, and the fact we came away with 3 points is huge regardless of who the opposition were. |
Disagree with that, i thought Morecambe put a very good shift in
It also needs to be remembered that we are currently well below strength, no Watmuf, Beckwith, Barlow, Allarahia, Mani and Rodney still feeling his way back. The levels of our performances aren't going to be the same with the quality of those players missing from the starting eleven. We lost control of the game at times yesterday and moved away from our passing game but Morecambe deserve credit for that. These players are doing brilliant, the squad players are now doing the business but as fans i think expecting performance levels to not drop a little is expecting too much. We were lightweight up front yesterday and Waller had his hands full all afternoon with their tricky winger. I also thought we missed Barlows quality buzzing around behind the forwards. Under the circumstances yesterday was one of our best wins of the season. [Post edited 27 Dec 4:39]
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 05:44 - Dec 27 with 744 views | TVOS1907 |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 04:35 - Dec 27 by TalkingSutty |
Disagree with that, i thought Morecambe put a very good shift in
It also needs to be remembered that we are currently well below strength, no Watmuf, Beckwith, Barlow, Allarahia, Mani and Rodney still feeling his way back. The levels of our performances aren't going to be the same with the quality of those players missing from the starting eleven. We lost control of the game at times yesterday and moved away from our passing game but Morecambe deserve credit for that. These players are doing brilliant, the squad players are now doing the business but as fans i think expecting performance levels to not drop a little is expecting too much. We were lightweight up front yesterday and Waller had his hands full all afternoon with their tricky winger. I also thought we missed Barlows quality buzzing around behind the forwards. Under the circumstances yesterday was one of our best wins of the season. [Post edited 27 Dec 4:39]
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Correct, and the opposition are allowed to play well or above how well their position suggests they should. |  |
| You mean you STILL haven't worked out why some posts get down-ticked? |
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| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 09:31 - Dec 27 with 369 views | NorthernDale |
I thought it would be a tight game, Morecambe have improved in recent weeks and are fighting relegation, and at 1-1 I thought it would end that way. However give credit to the team, we have put out a weaken team in the last few games and still managed to grind out results, which would not have happened last season. This is an indication of the team spirit which we seem to have. | | | |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 11:30 - Dec 27 with 184 views | dannyuk |
| Refwatch - Morecambe v Rochdale on 04:35 - Dec 27 by TalkingSutty |
Disagree with that, i thought Morecambe put a very good shift in
It also needs to be remembered that we are currently well below strength, no Watmuf, Beckwith, Barlow, Allarahia, Mani and Rodney still feeling his way back. The levels of our performances aren't going to be the same with the quality of those players missing from the starting eleven. We lost control of the game at times yesterday and moved away from our passing game but Morecambe deserve credit for that. These players are doing brilliant, the squad players are now doing the business but as fans i think expecting performance levels to not drop a little is expecting too much. We were lightweight up front yesterday and Waller had his hands full all afternoon with their tricky winger. I also thought we missed Barlows quality buzzing around behind the forwards. Under the circumstances yesterday was one of our best wins of the season. [Post edited 27 Dec 4:39]
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Maybe my midnight wording came across less positive than intended. Saying our worst performance so far was still not meaning a 'poor' performance and is a reflection on how good this season has been so far, rather than trying to say we were bad because we weren't. We just didn't seem to play as well as in previous game and some of the credit for that you correctly say should be directed at Morecambe's own performance. Another 3 points for us and 5 wins in a row, happy days. | | | |
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