| Cargiant site on 06:51 - Apr 21 with 3941 views | QPR_Jim |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by daveB |
It's all great to talk about this as a realistic idea but I just look at the money and it's non starter. £100million for the land before you even put a spade in the ground. The owners have not wanted to pay for any land for a new stadium so far, it's a pipe dream I'm afraid. |
I agree that it's unlikely to happen but mainly because most property developers in London will be looking at the site. You only need to look at the training ground, wanted the Warren Farm lease for "free" (if you exclude the cost of building and running part of the site for public use) but paid for the freehold at Heston. So wanting the LCS leasehold for "free" doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be willing to pay for a freehold. They also bought the land for the Oakland Rise development, so technically they seem like the most likely QPR owners in generations to buy land in west London based on track record.
Also I'm not sure £100m for 50 acres in West London is a lot, even if you add to that £50m to cover infrastructure costs. Oakland Rise was a £175m project on under 5 acres of land, so it doesn't look like crazy numbers tbh. |  | |  |
| Cargiant site on 09:11 - Apr 21 with 3626 views | TheChef |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
Anecdotally, increasing amounts of stories emanating from the School End. I shudder every time I see that upper tier packed out and people standing in the aisles like they do, if anybody has a heart attack up there nobody is getting to them. We've quietly had to house 50 away fans down in the corner of the lower end with a portable toilet and a coffee cart to bring the upper tier capacity down. There was an incident the season before last where people in the lower tier had to be moved for falling concrete. It feels like an accident waiting to happen that end of the ground. |
Sad to say but having been to a few grounds around the country, you do wonder how some of them get their safety certificates. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 09:40 - Apr 21 with 3551 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 06:51 - Apr 21 by QPR_Jim |
I agree that it's unlikely to happen but mainly because most property developers in London will be looking at the site. You only need to look at the training ground, wanted the Warren Farm lease for "free" (if you exclude the cost of building and running part of the site for public use) but paid for the freehold at Heston. So wanting the LCS leasehold for "free" doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be willing to pay for a freehold. They also bought the land for the Oakland Rise development, so technically they seem like the most likely QPR owners in generations to buy land in west London based on track record.
Also I'm not sure £100m for 50 acres in West London is a lot, even if you add to that £50m to cover infrastructure costs. Oakland Rise was a £175m project on under 5 acres of land, so it doesn't look like crazy numbers tbh. |
Actually property development in London is collapsing. Down 84% in a decade
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
A big factor (which the article doesn't mention) is that a lot of the large scale developers have been struggling to shift the properties they've already built.
So a £100 million asking price for the CarGiant plot might be very optimistic. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:52 - Apr 21 with 3497 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 09:11 - Apr 21 by TheChef |
Sad to say but having been to a few grounds around the country, you do wonder how some of them get their safety certificates. |
have to agree portsmouth and watford are prime examples of accidents waiting to happen , postmouth is a death trap |  |
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| Cargiant site on 09:55 - Apr 21 with 3495 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 09:40 - Apr 21 by KensalT |
Actually property development in London is collapsing. Down 84% in a decade
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
A big factor (which the article doesn't mention) is that a lot of the large scale developers have been struggling to shift the properties they've already built.
So a £100 million asking price for the CarGiant plot might be very optimistic. |
being in the industry of supplying people to thse very sites , london is fecked for large housing developments , guys who work for me who are usually working 12 month of the year some havent seen a site in 6 months , large construction companies and subbies going bust every week as well its the worst iove seen it in 25 years of doing it . | |
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| Cargiant site on 09:55 - Apr 21 with 3498 views | BklynRanger |
| Cargiant site on 14:43 - Apr 17 by TK1 |
Good research and post.
I am a huge sceptic, obviously, not so much of either getting a new ground or not redeveloping what we have, which is far more possible than the club allow fans to know about: there is without question a long campaign of managed decline at LR, everywhere is impossible to maintain or update other than those areas used by the directors and guests...
But mainly allowing this particular board the chance to pull this trigger after more than a decade of clownshow business.
An absentee owner/majority share holder who hasn't communicated with fans in over two years and rarely comes to matches; an American business man who has *never* communicated with fans; Lee Hoos who retired from his role of CEO when the DOF fell on his sword, apparently to return home, only to suddenly become Chairman; Amit Bhatia, who has had a good go of it, left his role, but stayed on the board for some reason (we may be seeing the reason); and Nourry, the fall guy and man of very forked tongue who allows all these others to move so mysteriously behind him...
I don't think they deserve it. I do not trust them to do it well. They just haven't earned it yet, baby.
However, I believe it is definitely in discussion, is in motion, is central to Project Big Ben and the Car Giant announcement is just further negotiations, I am sure. I imagine the £100m can be halved at least.
You're right about the transport and access stuff. It is somewhat reassuring, even if like me you do not believe public finances over the next couple of years will allow anything like it. |
I'm catching up on this thread by reading it backwards. Never a good idea but this sentence stands out, based on my own views: 'redeveloping what we have, which is far more possible than the club allow fans to know about'.
If that's the case I look forward to hearing more when they think they're ready (sooner rather than later ideally).
The thing about moving to Old Oak, for me, is despite all the great knowledge evident in this thread we still have never seen a good solid options analysis of redeveloping vs moving to a new site.
Getting that conducted independently and objectively would be the hardest part of course, especially in terms of how it was then packaged to we the public, but I'd like to see what could or couldn't be done with the existing site, what planning permission would be needed, how viable that would be, a sense of costs, timescales etc. And be able to compare that with a move to Car Giant etc.
It's been discussed to death I know, but never in a transparent professional way - a few burnt out Lee Hoos comments at fans fora or annual interviews just isn't enough.
Any sensible (don't laugh) group of owners would have to have gone well down that path by now, and I think a clear majority of us would rather stay where we are if serious improvements could be made. I know the roof is coming off, no room on the concourses, no leg room etc etc, but I don't feel well enough informed to know for sure that we need to abandon everything that we do have at LR for a couple of decades of transition which could have its own well documented pitfalls. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:01 - Apr 21 with 3476 views | QPR_Jim |
| Cargiant site on 09:40 - Apr 21 by KensalT |
Actually property development in London is collapsing. Down 84% in a decade
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
A big factor (which the article doesn't mention) is that a lot of the large scale developers have been struggling to shift the properties they've already built.
So a £100 million asking price for the CarGiant plot might be very optimistic. |
The BSA and gateway process has had an effect making high rise difficult to deliver due to backlogs and I've also seen that recently London house prices have dropped for the 6th consecutive month which isn't ideal for developers. But I'd still expect them to go for the site and land bank it until the market picks up. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:19 - Apr 21 with 3419 views | R_from_afar |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by daveB |
It's all great to talk about this as a realistic idea but I just look at the money and it's non starter. £100million for the land before you even put a spade in the ground. The owners have not wanted to pay for any land for a new stadium so far, it's a pipe dream I'm afraid. |
My biggest concern with the club is the apparent ongoing lack of any plan to either redevelop LR or build a new stadium elsewhere. I can see this limbo continuing, sadly. There isn't a compelling event which would finally move things forward, well, at least not until that fateful morning when part of the stadium just crumbles into dust.
Redeveloping the old girl would be very disruptive and challenging and as Dave says, building a new stadium elsewhere comes with monumental costs. I think we'll just muddle through, unfortunately.
Unless...this plan to buy an Australian club is more about getting our hands on their stadium  . How many would 'Wall take to Alice Springs for their big derby with the Rs?  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Cargiant site on 11:32 - Apr 21 with 3301 views | Hoopsie |
| Cargiant site on 09:55 - Apr 21 by BklynRanger |
I'm catching up on this thread by reading it backwards. Never a good idea but this sentence stands out, based on my own views: 'redeveloping what we have, which is far more possible than the club allow fans to know about'.
If that's the case I look forward to hearing more when they think they're ready (sooner rather than later ideally).
The thing about moving to Old Oak, for me, is despite all the great knowledge evident in this thread we still have never seen a good solid options analysis of redeveloping vs moving to a new site.
Getting that conducted independently and objectively would be the hardest part of course, especially in terms of how it was then packaged to we the public, but I'd like to see what could or couldn't be done with the existing site, what planning permission would be needed, how viable that would be, a sense of costs, timescales etc. And be able to compare that with a move to Car Giant etc.
It's been discussed to death I know, but never in a transparent professional way - a few burnt out Lee Hoos comments at fans fora or annual interviews just isn't enough.
Any sensible (don't laugh) group of owners would have to have gone well down that path by now, and I think a clear majority of us would rather stay where we are if serious improvements could be made. I know the roof is coming off, no room on the concourses, no leg room etc etc, but I don't feel well enough informed to know for sure that we need to abandon everything that we do have at LR for a couple of decades of transition which could have its own well documented pitfalls. |
The club did - but details of the report were never shared nor publicised:
For the 2019 feasibility study regarding the improvement of the Loftus Road stadium (Kiyan Prince Foundation Stadium), Michael Drain Architects (MDA) served as the architect, and calfordseaden acted as the cost consultant/quantity surveyor.
You can look up Michael Drain Architects and Calford Seaden for artist impressions and a synopsis of the study.
Club won’t tell |  |
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| Cargiant site on 12:01 - Apr 21 with 3226 views | QPR_Jim |
| Cargiant site on 11:32 - Apr 21 by Hoopsie |
The club did - but details of the report were never shared nor publicised:
For the 2019 feasibility study regarding the improvement of the Loftus Road stadium (Kiyan Prince Foundation Stadium), Michael Drain Architects (MDA) served as the architect, and calfordseaden acted as the cost consultant/quantity surveyor.
You can look up Michael Drain Architects and Calford Seaden for artist impressions and a synopsis of the study.
Club won’t tell |
Were they employed by the club though? Calfordseaden did a lot of roles in that feasibility study and it says they "collaborated speculatively" with MDA, so it doesn't sound like they were getting paid. MDA for there part created some nice images but I'm not convinced that they're achievable. Looking at their website they look like a good architect but not a lot of experience in stadiums or events spaces, mainly domestic with a couple of hotels and portal frame sheds. In contrast when we wanted to push ahead with a stadium previously the club went for Populous who have a track record for designing stadiums.
Altogether it looks like a project for their portfolio rather than a serious feasibility study instructed by the club, but I could be wrong. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:56]
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| Cargiant site on 12:48 - Apr 21 with 3148 views | SydneyRs |
| Cargiant site on 11:32 - Apr 21 by Hoopsie |
The club did - but details of the report were never shared nor publicised:
For the 2019 feasibility study regarding the improvement of the Loftus Road stadium (Kiyan Prince Foundation Stadium), Michael Drain Architects (MDA) served as the architect, and calfordseaden acted as the cost consultant/quantity surveyor.
You can look up Michael Drain Architects and Calford Seaden for artist impressions and a synopsis of the study.
Club won’t tell |
Interesting ideas but I'm not sure how workable. How much did they reckon it would increase capacity by? Unless I missed it, that doesn't seem to be mentioned. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 13:29 - Apr 21 with 3069 views | Hoopsie |
| Cargiant site on 12:48 - Apr 21 by SydneyRs |
Interesting ideas but I'm not sure how workable. How much did they reckon it would increase capacity by? Unless I missed it, that doesn't seem to be mentioned. |
In the Calford Seaden website:
In response to QPR’s “Secure R Future” document, which set out the football club’s view that there was no opportunity to suitably improve its stadium at Loftus Road we collaborated (speculatively) with Michael Drain Architects (MDA) throughout summer 2019 to undertake a feasibility study and explore what could be provided within the tight site.
Using existing studies which had been undertaken by MDA while the club was under its former ownership as a starting point, calfordseaden provided Project Management, Building Surveying, Cost Consultancy, Structural Engineering, Mechanical + Electrical Engineering, and Rights of Light + Party Wall services, while MDA developed its design proposals with some surprising results.
The study identified the potential for an increase in capacity between 30% and 50%, more than doubling the existing concourse area and tripling the existing hospitality provision, supported by 500 car parking spaces. A more detailed summary is as follows:
An increased capacity of 23,700 (scheme 1) potentially rising to over 28,000 (scheme 2).
All new and replacement seats being provided to modern day space standards.
The replacement of the existing roof to all four stands.
The rationalisation of supporter distribution and the relocation of the family stand.
Over double the area of concourse provision, which improves circulation and affords opportunity for bars and restaurants.
Triple the linear frontage of concourse serving areas, improving the speed of service and vending potential.
The rationalisation of the main stand entrances and circulation area, including the expansion of the player entrance, changing and treatment rooms.
The relocation, expansion and improvement of the club shop.
The relocation and modernisation of the on-site staff offices.
The potential to provide a players and members spa.
1,500 – 2,500 hospitality covers which could provide: large conference halls doubling up as restaurants for match-day hospitality, smaller conference rooms to provide additional restaurants, lounges and bars for match day use, 26 executive boxes at 25m2 and 12 executive boxes at 54m2 and the provision of a roof terrace bar.
Improved vertical movement between floors.
The provision of larger, modern catering kitchens to support the vast increase in hospitality covers.
An allowance for the replacement of the M&E installations in support of the increased facilities and stadium expansion.
A new and improved facade to the north and west elevations, with feature lighting and media advertising potential.
The provision of on-site renewable energy technologies.
We provided a project programme and our cost team identified that the project could be delivered for a construction cost in the order of £75m – £93m depending upon which options were implemented.
—————————
I might add all of the above is “possible” without buying the school and the acquisition of all houses along Ellerslie and/or Loftus Road and/or Imre Close
Sounds like fantasy? 28,000 all seater at the Loftus? Mind these are 2019 study and costs. You would imagine they did this feasibility study with proper knowledge of the planning regulations and the White City planning scheme of LBHF. Again not sure what is the club role in this. I would have imagined the architects and construction consultants did this not just for fun? [Post edited 21 Apr 13:35]
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| Cargiant site on 15:14 - Apr 21 with 2933 views | LongRanger |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by daveB |
It's all great to talk about this as a realistic idea but I just look at the money and it's non starter. £100million for the land before you even put a spade in the ground. The owners have not wanted to pay for any land for a new stadium so far, it's a pipe dream I'm afraid. |
I don't agree that its a non-starter Dave, but agree they have been trying to do it on the cheap. I can't imagine any land that is big enough is coming up near us that is free or even much cheaper than 100m. I have little faith in the leadership of this club, but as I said earlier in the thread, I think LR is on its last legs without structural changes, so this site forces the owners to make a decision once and for all....upgrade LR or buy this land, as we're out of other options....or perhaps sell and let someone else decide. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:24 - Apr 21 with 2889 views | kensalriser |
| Cargiant site on 13:29 - Apr 21 by Hoopsie |
In the Calford Seaden website:
In response to QPR’s “Secure R Future” document, which set out the football club’s view that there was no opportunity to suitably improve its stadium at Loftus Road we collaborated (speculatively) with Michael Drain Architects (MDA) throughout summer 2019 to undertake a feasibility study and explore what could be provided within the tight site.
Using existing studies which had been undertaken by MDA while the club was under its former ownership as a starting point, calfordseaden provided Project Management, Building Surveying, Cost Consultancy, Structural Engineering, Mechanical + Electrical Engineering, and Rights of Light + Party Wall services, while MDA developed its design proposals with some surprising results.
The study identified the potential for an increase in capacity between 30% and 50%, more than doubling the existing concourse area and tripling the existing hospitality provision, supported by 500 car parking spaces. A more detailed summary is as follows:
An increased capacity of 23,700 (scheme 1) potentially rising to over 28,000 (scheme 2).
All new and replacement seats being provided to modern day space standards.
The replacement of the existing roof to all four stands.
The rationalisation of supporter distribution and the relocation of the family stand.
Over double the area of concourse provision, which improves circulation and affords opportunity for bars and restaurants.
Triple the linear frontage of concourse serving areas, improving the speed of service and vending potential.
The rationalisation of the main stand entrances and circulation area, including the expansion of the player entrance, changing and treatment rooms.
The relocation, expansion and improvement of the club shop.
The relocation and modernisation of the on-site staff offices.
The potential to provide a players and members spa.
1,500 – 2,500 hospitality covers which could provide: large conference halls doubling up as restaurants for match-day hospitality, smaller conference rooms to provide additional restaurants, lounges and bars for match day use, 26 executive boxes at 25m2 and 12 executive boxes at 54m2 and the provision of a roof terrace bar.
Improved vertical movement between floors.
The provision of larger, modern catering kitchens to support the vast increase in hospitality covers.
An allowance for the replacement of the M&E installations in support of the increased facilities and stadium expansion.
A new and improved facade to the north and west elevations, with feature lighting and media advertising potential.
The provision of on-site renewable energy technologies.
We provided a project programme and our cost team identified that the project could be delivered for a construction cost in the order of £75m – £93m depending upon which options were implemented.
—————————
I might add all of the above is “possible” without buying the school and the acquisition of all houses along Ellerslie and/or Loftus Road and/or Imre Close
Sounds like fantasy? 28,000 all seater at the Loftus? Mind these are 2019 study and costs. You would imagine they did this feasibility study with proper knowledge of the planning regulations and the White City planning scheme of LBHF. Again not sure what is the club role in this. I would have imagined the architects and construction consultants did this not just for fun? [Post edited 21 Apr 13:35]
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On the face of it, it seems like pure fantasy, unless they've found a loophole in the laws of physics. 30-50% increase in capacity, seats to modern space standards (is that smaller?), double the concourse areas, bigger club shop, 500 parking spaces...where is all that coming from within the current footprint?
Back in the real world, my guess is that any serious, ie costly, improvements to LR offer no prospect of recoupment, and that's why it's unlikely to happen.
In contrast, if the club helms a wider development of a new site that includes commercial and residential development it may be able to recoup a substantial portion if not all of the costs. Obviously support from H&F would be key - and there must be a reason why Nourry is on the council's Upstream London Strategic Advisory Board. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 15:51 - Apr 21 with 2807 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Cargiant site on 15:24 - Apr 21 by kensalriser |
On the face of it, it seems like pure fantasy, unless they've found a loophole in the laws of physics. 30-50% increase in capacity, seats to modern space standards (is that smaller?), double the concourse areas, bigger club shop, 500 parking spaces...where is all that coming from within the current footprint?
Back in the real world, my guess is that any serious, ie costly, improvements to LR offer no prospect of recoupment, and that's why it's unlikely to happen.
In contrast, if the club helms a wider development of a new site that includes commercial and residential development it may be able to recoup a substantial portion if not all of the costs. Obviously support from H&F would be key - and there must be a reason why Nourry is on the council's Upstream London Strategic Advisory Board. |
I have to agree. I can't see how that would be even close to feasible.
Here's another to-scale image of the LR footprint, this time with the outline of Doncaster's ground over the top:
Doncaster's capacity is 15,231.
I wouldn't want a stadium anything like that monstrosity, no matter where it were built. But I think this gives you an idea of just how tiny our current space really is. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:48 - Apr 21 with 2714 views | SpongeParr |
| Cargiant site on 23:01 - Apr 20 by daveB |
It's all great to talk about this as a realistic idea but I just look at the money and it's non starter. £100million for the land before you even put a spade in the ground. The owners have not wanted to pay for any land for a new stadium so far, it's a pipe dream I'm afraid. |
We wouldn't need it all and it will all be part of a regeneration that will bring in millions a month, though rent, sales, events and so on. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:55 - Apr 21 with 2694 views | LongsufferingR |
| Cargiant site on 15:24 - Apr 21 by kensalriser |
On the face of it, it seems like pure fantasy, unless they've found a loophole in the laws of physics. 30-50% increase in capacity, seats to modern space standards (is that smaller?), double the concourse areas, bigger club shop, 500 parking spaces...where is all that coming from within the current footprint?
Back in the real world, my guess is that any serious, ie costly, improvements to LR offer no prospect of recoupment, and that's why it's unlikely to happen.
In contrast, if the club helms a wider development of a new site that includes commercial and residential development it may be able to recoup a substantial portion if not all of the costs. Obviously support from H&F would be key - and there must be a reason why Nourry is on the council's Upstream London Strategic Advisory Board. |
Car park would need to be underground, so maybe the dig-downers were right all along! |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:56 - Apr 21 with 2688 views | Juzzie |
| Cargiant site on 15:51 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
I have to agree. I can't see how that would be even close to feasible.
Here's another to-scale image of the LR footprint, this time with the outline of Doncaster's ground over the top:
Doncaster's capacity is 15,231.
I wouldn't want a stadium anything like that monstrosity, no matter where it were built. But I think this gives you an idea of just how tiny our current space really is. |
Buy all the houses in Ellerslie Road, buy all the houses in Loftus Road, buy the school and buy the flats in Imre Close, then buy and re-route South Africa Road into part of the White City Estate (probably need to buy part of that too).
Job done. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:57 - Apr 21 with 2672 views | Boston |
| Cargiant site on 15:24 - Apr 21 by kensalriser |
On the face of it, it seems like pure fantasy, unless they've found a loophole in the laws of physics. 30-50% increase in capacity, seats to modern space standards (is that smaller?), double the concourse areas, bigger club shop, 500 parking spaces...where is all that coming from within the current footprint?
Back in the real world, my guess is that any serious, ie costly, improvements to LR offer no prospect of recoupment, and that's why it's unlikely to happen.
In contrast, if the club helms a wider development of a new site that includes commercial and residential development it may be able to recoup a substantial portion if not all of the costs. Obviously support from H&F would be key - and there must be a reason why Nourry is on the council's Upstream London Strategic Advisory Board. |
Looks like we're digging up. | |
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| Cargiant site on 17:33 - Apr 21 with 2609 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 16:48 - Apr 21 by SpongeParr |
We wouldn't need it all and it will all be part of a regeneration that will bring in millions a month, though rent, sales, events and so on. |
how will it bring in millions a month to the club? |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:34 - Apr 21 with 2605 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 16:56 - Apr 21 by Juzzie |
Buy all the houses in Ellerslie Road, buy all the houses in Loftus Road, buy the school and buy the flats in Imre Close, then buy and re-route South Africa Road into part of the White City Estate (probably need to buy part of that too).
Job done. |
probably cheaper than old oak as well although very unlikely | | | |
| Cargiant site on 19:37 - Apr 21 with 2458 views | Hoopsie |
| Cargiant site on 16:48 - Apr 21 by SpongeParr |
We wouldn't need it all and it will all be part of a regeneration that will bring in millions a month, though rent, sales, events and so on. |
Loftus Road is on 4.5 acres
A new 25-30k stadium ( I don’t think we need 40k like the proposed new queens park in 2014) probably need 7-9 acres, almost doubling our current footprint.
The rest 20+ acres, if we purchase the whole thing, the Cargiant site on offer being 30 acres, will be developed into commercial and residential holdings. Oakland’s rise development is on 4.5 acres with 605 new homes. Perhaps this is the “million a month rent” but I suppose it would be better off selling these “assets” and “rack in the profits of tens of millions” at one go. lol 😂
The owners don’t need the whole site, so they might choose to buy it with a group of investors, or be part of a conglomerate of developers.
If this is happening, it won’t be anytime soon. Any development of that magnitude will take time, it will not just be the stadium but all the rest of it, and the site may be developed in stages, so the timeframe can stretch into 10-15 years. Who knows, optimistically maybe 5-10 years?
Loftus Road still needs upgrading. We are going to stay for the foreseeable future. [Post edited 21 Apr 19:39]
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| Cargiant site on 20:47 - Apr 21 with 2399 views | KerryE |
| Cargiant site on 13:29 - Apr 21 by Hoopsie |
In the Calford Seaden website:
In response to QPR’s “Secure R Future” document, which set out the football club’s view that there was no opportunity to suitably improve its stadium at Loftus Road we collaborated (speculatively) with Michael Drain Architects (MDA) throughout summer 2019 to undertake a feasibility study and explore what could be provided within the tight site.
Using existing studies which had been undertaken by MDA while the club was under its former ownership as a starting point, calfordseaden provided Project Management, Building Surveying, Cost Consultancy, Structural Engineering, Mechanical + Electrical Engineering, and Rights of Light + Party Wall services, while MDA developed its design proposals with some surprising results.
The study identified the potential for an increase in capacity between 30% and 50%, more than doubling the existing concourse area and tripling the existing hospitality provision, supported by 500 car parking spaces. A more detailed summary is as follows:
An increased capacity of 23,700 (scheme 1) potentially rising to over 28,000 (scheme 2).
All new and replacement seats being provided to modern day space standards.
The replacement of the existing roof to all four stands.
The rationalisation of supporter distribution and the relocation of the family stand.
Over double the area of concourse provision, which improves circulation and affords opportunity for bars and restaurants.
Triple the linear frontage of concourse serving areas, improving the speed of service and vending potential.
The rationalisation of the main stand entrances and circulation area, including the expansion of the player entrance, changing and treatment rooms.
The relocation, expansion and improvement of the club shop.
The relocation and modernisation of the on-site staff offices.
The potential to provide a players and members spa.
1,500 – 2,500 hospitality covers which could provide: large conference halls doubling up as restaurants for match-day hospitality, smaller conference rooms to provide additional restaurants, lounges and bars for match day use, 26 executive boxes at 25m2 and 12 executive boxes at 54m2 and the provision of a roof terrace bar.
Improved vertical movement between floors.
The provision of larger, modern catering kitchens to support the vast increase in hospitality covers.
An allowance for the replacement of the M&E installations in support of the increased facilities and stadium expansion.
A new and improved facade to the north and west elevations, with feature lighting and media advertising potential.
The provision of on-site renewable energy technologies.
We provided a project programme and our cost team identified that the project could be delivered for a construction cost in the order of £75m – £93m depending upon which options were implemented.
—————————
I might add all of the above is “possible” without buying the school and the acquisition of all houses along Ellerslie and/or Loftus Road and/or Imre Close
Sounds like fantasy? 28,000 all seater at the Loftus? Mind these are 2019 study and costs. You would imagine they did this feasibility study with proper knowledge of the planning regulations and the White City planning scheme of LBHF. Again not sure what is the club role in this. I would have imagined the architects and construction consultants did this not just for fun? [Post edited 21 Apr 13:35]
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I get the impression that whole scheme was the product giving a new graduate architect a little project to stick on their website. Its absolute pie in the sky….even though I want it to be true! | | | |
| Cargiant site on 00:06 - Apr 22 with 2298 views | SydneyRs |
| Cargiant site on 20:47 - Apr 21 by KerryE |
I get the impression that whole scheme was the product giving a new graduate architect a little project to stick on their website. Its absolute pie in the sky….even though I want it to be true! |
First thoughts were the Ellerslie Rd residents wouldn't be having those boxes sitting above their back yards. We couldn't even get Warren Farm over the line thanks to the nonsense peddled by residents about it, what chance would something like this have even if genuine? | | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:15 - Apr 22 with 2164 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 00:06 - Apr 22 by SydneyRs |
First thoughts were the Ellerslie Rd residents wouldn't be having those boxes sitting above their back yards. We couldn't even get Warren Farm over the line thanks to the nonsense peddled by residents about it, what chance would something like this have even if genuine? |
You can ignore the drawings from the Michael Drain website, they stem from Briatore's ownership when they wanted to add lots of hospitality to the 'boutique' stadium. They are only relevant to this discussion in that in 2019 Calford Seaden took the work done previously and looked to see what they could do to Loftus Rd to increase the capacity.
I understand the scepticism, on the surface that scale of increase seems unlikely, but I don't understand what benefit there is to them to lie about their findings. They're not going to gain any work out of it once the lie was discovered, and they're a reputable firm who've worked on other football stadiums. | | | |
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