| Cargiant site on 22:47 - Apr 17 with 3940 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 22:42 - Apr 17 by kensalriser |
Controversial geography there! I might have to concede that Old Oak and the area bordered by the canal, Scrubs Lane and Station Rd isn't Park Royal, but everything west of Victoria Rd definitely is and maybe up to Old Oak Common Lane.
Boroughs, not fussed. Arbitrary political boundaries. I was born in the borough of Wembley, then Middlesex. A year later, it became Brent in London. Now the same house is in Ealing. |
Your old gaff doesn't sound too popular :-)
Is it haunted?
Could be a job for Olly
https://www.theguardian.com/fo [Post edited 18 Apr 11:38]
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| Cargiant site on 22:53 - Apr 17 with 3899 views | Hoopsie |
Genuinely, if Old Oak is not the holy land and staying at Loftus Road is untenable, where else in W12 can we move to? |  |
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| Cargiant site on 23:23 - Apr 17 with 3791 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 17:35 - Apr 17 by BAWHoops |
Yes a stadium is expensive, but you offset that substantially with selling Loftus Road to a developer. You also have facilities there which make money.
Importantly you are able to sell the club to a Hedge Fund with a shiny new stadium as well.
It's always been the play for the owners.
We will never get a better chance to buy a large site close to Loftus Road. |
"Offset that substantially" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
How much do you think Loftus Rd is worth? It'll be in the latest accounts, but a reasonable guesstimate would be circa £50-60m. In other words 10% of the cost of the new stadium. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 23:25 - Apr 17 with 3776 views | dannyblue |
I heard today that a mate’s firm expected to win the contract for re roofing loftus road. So they are spending some money on the old dear. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 00:44 - Apr 18 with 3711 views | numptydumpty |
| Cargiant site on 22:45 - Apr 17 by Northernr |
Chat GPT repeatedly got it wrong when I asked it the same question, despite me telling it twice it had got it wrong and to try again. |
AI is more accurate if its a paid subscription as it looks at a much wider database of information available with much greater emphasis on the most recent data.
Can't say i ever use ChatGpt myself though, especially the unpaid version as there are gaps in the dataset it looks at, and if it cant find some information the unpaid version and has a habit of guessing from a smaller data set, it has access to.
I wont post anymore brief AI data on this site though myself because its clearly not desired by the majority. Thats clear from the barrage of downvotes it gets. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 00:55 - Apr 18 with 3704 views | numptydumpty |
Am hopeful for a new stadium and this cargiant site seems interesting.
Just wondering myself, how is such investment to update our current ground or the massive financial outlay for a brand new stadium elsewhere, how is this financial spending incorporated into finances in terms of financial fair play.
Appreciate figures will have changed but last i knew, you could lose a maximum of £39m rolling over the last three seasons.
Clearly, a new stadium will cost hundreds of millions in a relatively short timeframe.
For the expert accountants on here, is this written off as a special expense that is not included in any FFP calculations.
Am assuming it can be hidden. Is this correct ??
From my limited knowledge, ia the finance spent considered a capital expenditure, so not included in day to day spending, in terms of profit or loss. [Post edited 18 Apr 1:01]
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| Cargiant site on 01:23 - Apr 18 with 3666 views | Hoopsie |
Do the owners have full ownership or control over Loftus Road? If tomorrow they say sell can anyone stop them? | |
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| Cargiant site on 02:44 - Apr 18 with 3599 views | Hoopsie |
Can anyone confirm if there are plans for a major upgrade to Matrade loftus road?
With project Big Ben and aborted plans for the 40,000 new queens park stadium, the no-go Linford Christie stadium site, can we say the owners are actively looking at a new stadium/home for the club?
Their stake in Oakland rise development, Nourry’s involvement with council, Reilly part-owner of FC Cincinnati with commercial development credentials suggest the new stadium move is a mid to long term goal.
The short term is looking at upgrading Loftus Road, not necessarily increasing its capacity which we have established is quite impossible and nevertheless also costly but rather, I suspect, improving the amenities and spectators experience, such as rail standing, toilets, roofing etc. for a short term fix in view of the bigger goal.
As even if the club purchase a site today for a new stadium development, that would be years in the making before we actually move in, 5-10 years depending on the complexities of planning and construction
However with the current ownership track record of delivering Heston training ground after almost a decade of entanglement with the locals re Warren Farm, surely they had learned some lessons re Fernandes foolery with Cargiant’s OOC site and their entitled mindset in getting the keys for Linford from the council.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they have already started manoeuvring behind the scenes to acquire Cargiant OOC site.
I am always reminded that
- we have had many missed opportunities to move within the borough - true, but what made us assume these sites were to be easy acquisition not to mention to build a new stadium eg Dairy Crest site, or sites close to heritage protection, hospitals, where a stadium is hard to justify
- Loftus Road site is hampered by any ambitious redevelopment in increasing its footprint and capacity with a host of issues like planning restrictions, covenants and the real potential resistance and objections from the local residents. Buying the school won’t help, buying up Ellerslie and loftus road houses is nigh impossible
- love the current stadium, but that’s only because we can relate to it with all the embedded memories, but perhaps it’s time to move on?
- we should treasure and cherish, but also at the same time plan to grow the club into the future sustainably and responsibly for what will come after but always to be respectful of what had came before
- moving to a new home does not guaranteed success is what a lot of us is saying and I get it, but by not moving we are probably set for failure or at best stuck in the doldrums
- skeptical of the owners, to do the right thing? To successfully deliver a new stadium? Perhaps, but looking at the Heston training ground I am quietly optimistic
- OOC not an ideal site? There are many cons but also many pros which have been well articulated. However, we are in a part of London that will probably offer very little or even nothing moving forward in terms of a perfect site within W12 to build a stadium adequate enough for our ambitions. You would think that getting a planning approval for a stadium here would be a lot easier than Linford or other challenging sites much much closer to Loftus Road.
- OOC being a regenerative site is perhaps the ideal location to build a stadium amongst a host of commercial, residential and transportation developments. It is a derelict industrial site etc etc but these sites are exactly the ones you look for - cheaper, close to city centre, in a city with a bursting population pushing out to encroach the fringes, full of potential. Before you compare with Bolton, Reading, Derby, Wigan, this is London, close to 15% of the population of England (or 12.5% of the United Kingdom) resides in the metropolitan area of Greater London
- Lastly, finding the perfect site. I hope we don’t lose sight of opportunity staring right in front of our face while chasing that perfect dream site.
I also understand it takes just a short official statement from the club to state they are not looking at OOC to shut me up. I’ll take that, but thinking about the future of the club you just can’t not speculate [Post edited 18 Apr 8:14]
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| Cargiant site on 07:44 - Apr 18 with 3465 views | Gloucs_R |
Simple.... If we have no interest in acquiring this site then the future of the football club looks very bleak.
Loftus road cannot be developed in any sustainable way.
So unless by some miracle they develop White city and we are allowed a new stadium there. I cannot see the club moving to any other location within the vicinity.
Let's not just think about the next few years, but let's think about the next 20. Can you imagine loftus road in 20 years? It's already one of the oldest stadiums in London!! |  |
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| Cargiant site on 08:18 - Apr 18 with 3423 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Cargiant site on 07:44 - Apr 18 by Gloucs_R |
Simple.... If we have no interest in acquiring this site then the future of the football club looks very bleak.
Loftus road cannot be developed in any sustainable way.
So unless by some miracle they develop White city and we are allowed a new stadium there. I cannot see the club moving to any other location within the vicinity.
Let's not just think about the next few years, but let's think about the next 20. Can you imagine loftus road in 20 years? It's already one of the oldest stadiums in London!! |
This is the argument that reverberates with me. In this extraordinary thread, like in Clive's brilliant preview, I've agreed with those that say Loftus Road is everything. I've agreed with those that say moving to a better, modern stadium may be necessary for us to progress rather than fall ever back. I would absolutely hate to leave, but at the same time there seems to be no ability or appetite within the club to do any intelligent upkeep to it. Bunging in safe standing in an area just to make more money hardly proof positive that it is on the long-term agenda. How they don't make it across the whole of the Lower Loft GO IN GO OUT SHAKE IT ALL ABOUT stand I have no idea. Forget money, that's how you would improve atmosphere - which is one of the main things in the pro column for staying at LR, no?
Pontificating for 10 more years may well leave us with a crumbling, dangerous millstone at this rate of decline. Having serious land available so near by may not be an opportunity we see again. But, but, but the killer point - how can owners and management team as proven to be as terrible at ours at decision making be trusted to make this monumental decision and implement it too?
What's the old phrase? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:56 - Apr 18 with 3358 views | QPR_John |
| Cargiant site on 00:55 - Apr 18 by numptydumpty |
Am hopeful for a new stadium and this cargiant site seems interesting.
Just wondering myself, how is such investment to update our current ground or the massive financial outlay for a brand new stadium elsewhere, how is this financial spending incorporated into finances in terms of financial fair play.
Appreciate figures will have changed but last i knew, you could lose a maximum of £39m rolling over the last three seasons.
Clearly, a new stadium will cost hundreds of millions in a relatively short timeframe.
For the expert accountants on here, is this written off as a special expense that is not included in any FFP calculations.
Am assuming it can be hidden. Is this correct ??
From my limited knowledge, ia the finance spent considered a capital expenditure, so not included in day to day spending, in terms of profit or loss. [Post edited 18 Apr 1:01]
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As I understand it money spent on a new ground is not included in any FFP calculations. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:20 - Apr 18 with 3285 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 00:44 - Apr 18 by numptydumpty |
AI is more accurate if its a paid subscription as it looks at a much wider database of information available with much greater emphasis on the most recent data.
Can't say i ever use ChatGpt myself though, especially the unpaid version as there are gaps in the dataset it looks at, and if it cant find some information the unpaid version and has a habit of guessing from a smaller data set, it has access to.
I wont post anymore brief AI data on this site though myself because its clearly not desired by the majority. Thats clear from the barrage of downvotes it gets. |
I've got to disagree with you there Numpty.
The problem with your "most recent data" point is that a hell of a lot of "recent data" is itself AI generated,
AI has got to the point where it's copying it's own homework.
The AI industry recognises this problem and has realised that most of the best stuff which it hasn't been able to get at with internet trawling is based behind paywalls or is password protected because of privacy or confidentiality reasons.
It has given rise to the term "deep web", not to be confused with "dark web".
The AI industry has cottoned onto this. It's why Elon Musk was desperate to get his hands on the DOGE contract. It also explains why cuddly scamps like Palantir are getting themselves deeply embedded into our defence systems and the NHS.
There are certain benefits to paying for AI services. But for the most part the quality of results you get out of AI boils down to the quality of prompts you send it off with in the first place. [Post edited 18 Apr 9:22]
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| Cargiant site on 09:23 - Apr 18 with 3276 views | PunteR |
| Cargiant site on 08:18 - Apr 18 by GaryBannister86 |
This is the argument that reverberates with me. In this extraordinary thread, like in Clive's brilliant preview, I've agreed with those that say Loftus Road is everything. I've agreed with those that say moving to a better, modern stadium may be necessary for us to progress rather than fall ever back. I would absolutely hate to leave, but at the same time there seems to be no ability or appetite within the club to do any intelligent upkeep to it. Bunging in safe standing in an area just to make more money hardly proof positive that it is on the long-term agenda. How they don't make it across the whole of the Lower Loft GO IN GO OUT SHAKE IT ALL ABOUT stand I have no idea. Forget money, that's how you would improve atmosphere - which is one of the main things in the pro column for staying at LR, no?
Pontificating for 10 more years may well leave us with a crumbling, dangerous millstone at this rate of decline. Having serious land available so near by may not be an opportunity we see again. But, but, but the killer point - how can owners and management team as proven to be as terrible at ours at decision making be trusted to make this monumental decision and implement it too?
What's the old phrase? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. |
Or another old phrase... If its not broken, dont try to fix it.
Loftus road is unanimously loved by our fans. We've had our fair share of success at Loftus road, compared to other teams in bigger stadiums.
The stadium isnt the issue, I think its BS and spin manipulated by the owners to cover up their own inadequacy at running the club efficiently ;)
Correct me if im wrong, but Briatore and Eccleston never mentioned moving stadium. Their whole remit was get us back into the Premier league.
And plenty of clubs have done that without having to move stadiums.
We're not a Premier league club, end of. But we can still run a smaller club successfully. We can still have seasons in the Prem with a 16k attendance without going out of business.
With our current owners, the football side of the business will still be exactly the same, but in a wierd retail park type stadium, with leg room and still 16th in the Championship.
Also, where is the evidence that LR is crumbling, unsafe and not fit for purpose?
Ive seen so many things on social media from other fans enjoying their match day experience in Shepherds Bush.
[Post edited 18 Apr 9:32]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Cargiant site on 09:31 - Apr 18 with 3263 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 09:23 - Apr 18 by PunteR |
Or another old phrase... If its not broken, dont try to fix it.
Loftus road is unanimously loved by our fans. We've had our fair share of success at Loftus road, compared to other teams in bigger stadiums.
The stadium isnt the issue, I think its BS and spin manipulated by the owners to cover up their own inadequacy at running the club efficiently ;)
Correct me if im wrong, but Briatore and Eccleston never mentioned moving stadium. Their whole remit was get us back into the Premier league.
And plenty of clubs have done that without having to move stadiums.
We're not a Premier league club, end of. But we can still run a smaller club successfully. We can still have seasons in the Prem with a 16k attendance without going out of business.
With our current owners, the football side of the business will still be exactly the same, but in a wierd retail park type stadium, with leg room and still 16th in the Championship.
Also, where is the evidence that LR is crumbling, unsafe and not fit for purpose?
Ive seen so many things on social media from other fans enjoying their match day experience in Shepherds Bush.
[Post edited 18 Apr 9:32]
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Tango and Cash flipped us as soon as they got us up because they knew that promotion to the PL would greatly increase the value of the club.
If they were interested in long-term investment in the club they would have stuck around for our PL journey.
They didn't because they didn't see a profit in it.
Our owners might have their faults but they have owned their mistakes and stuck with us through the hard times. We would be in a far worse state now if they had decided to cut their losses and walk away.
Some day in the future our owners will move on.
Our fans might like ramshackle old Loftus Road but reputable future investors might not be so captivated by its old world charm. And if we can't attract reputable investors we end up attracting the likes of Chansiri who run their club into the ground.
Sooner or later the club will have to move into the 21st century if it wants to survive, let alone thrive. [Post edited 18 Apr 9:33]
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| Cargiant site on 10:05 - Apr 18 with 3188 views | Kensal_Ranger |
| Cargiant site on 14:51 - Apr 16 by DWQPR |
The depot is situated on the old depot that was there back in the day and doesn’t affect the CarGiant site at all. The footprint of the depot hasn’t changed at all. |
Coming in late to this but, I agree with DW, the new depot has been built exactly on the footprint of the earlier GWR loco & carriage sheds, located right by the existing tracks. Building an underground facility for this, for heavy mainline rolling stock is something akin to a 'Nazi Megastructures' episode, i.e. nonsense.
Apart from that, and the fact it's on the other side of the GU canal entirely from Car Giant & Powerday, renders it a non-issue. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:14 - Apr 18 with 3154 views | Toast_R |
Buy it and build it. About time. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:14 - Apr 18 with 3154 views | KensalT |
| Cargiant site on 10:05 - Apr 18 by Kensal_Ranger |
Coming in late to this but, I agree with DW, the new depot has been built exactly on the footprint of the earlier GWR loco & carriage sheds, located right by the existing tracks. Building an underground facility for this, for heavy mainline rolling stock is something akin to a 'Nazi Megastructures' episode, i.e. nonsense.
Apart from that, and the fact it's on the other side of the GU canal entirely from Car Giant & Powerday, renders it a non-issue. |
The problem with the depot is that it sits in between where the new station will be and any new stadium we might want to build.
How will you easily move large numbers of people between those two locations? And where will you put the pubs and restaurants etc that visiting fans would want to use before and after a game? | | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:31 - Apr 18 with 3114 views | QPR_Jim |
| Cargiant site on 10:05 - Apr 18 by Kensal_Ranger |
Coming in late to this but, I agree with DW, the new depot has been built exactly on the footprint of the earlier GWR loco & carriage sheds, located right by the existing tracks. Building an underground facility for this, for heavy mainline rolling stock is something akin to a 'Nazi Megastructures' episode, i.e. nonsense.
Apart from that, and the fact it's on the other side of the GU canal entirely from Car Giant & Powerday, renders it a non-issue. |
I think the point was that it's location would hinder access from the car giant site to old oak common station when completed.
However I did find this from parliamentary question to tfl a year ago:
"Whilst the HS2 Ltd design for Old Oak Common has not yet integrated designs, the urban realm area and station itself has been designed and sized to account for growth. To the east of the site, in the direction of Hythe Road, the station design provides passive provision for both pedestrian and vehicle bridge links so that these can be added later if needed, after the station ceases to operate as a terminus. Note that the proposed station at Hythe Road is a Transport for London proposal and HS2 Ltd isn't delivering any direct scope associated with this station."
So it does sound like you could get a pedestrian or road bridge to the east of the depot over the canal and track. That would mean that you'd have 2 overground stations and a high speed mainline station and Elizabeth line station on the doorstep and the nearest station would get you to Shepherds Bush for all the existing facilities and connections in under 5mins. It would be really well connected. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 11:32 - Apr 18 with 3002 views | Kensal_Ranger |
| Cargiant site on 10:31 - Apr 18 by QPR_Jim |
I think the point was that it's location would hinder access from the car giant site to old oak common station when completed.
However I did find this from parliamentary question to tfl a year ago:
"Whilst the HS2 Ltd design for Old Oak Common has not yet integrated designs, the urban realm area and station itself has been designed and sized to account for growth. To the east of the site, in the direction of Hythe Road, the station design provides passive provision for both pedestrian and vehicle bridge links so that these can be added later if needed, after the station ceases to operate as a terminus. Note that the proposed station at Hythe Road is a Transport for London proposal and HS2 Ltd isn't delivering any direct scope associated with this station."
So it does sound like you could get a pedestrian or road bridge to the east of the depot over the canal and track. That would mean that you'd have 2 overground stations and a high speed mainline station and Elizabeth line station on the doorstep and the nearest station would get you to Shepherds Bush for all the existing facilities and connections in under 5mins. It would be really well connected. |
Yup, and there would need to be provision for vehicle and pedestrian access from the east (Scrubs Lane) at the very minimum for emergency access if Old Oak Common Lane was blocked. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 11:49 - Apr 18 with 2955 views | TwoHalves |
| Cargiant site on 23:25 - Apr 17 by dannyblue |
I heard today that a mate’s firm expected to win the contract for re roofing loftus road. So they are spending some money on the old dear. |
Do they do Loft extensions? | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:52 - Apr 20 with 2167 views | TK1 |
Sorry to reignite this...
Interesting reading the comments of both Liverpool and Everton fans on social media about the state of Everton's new Hill Dickinson stadium, specifically how dangerous and difficult it is to leave the ground. Bottleneck leaving yesterday that took 45 mins to clear. Reminiscent of leaving WHU, only with adding crushing. Even when LR is sold out, I can be out of the ground on fulltime in ten, in a pub with a pint in 20 or on a tube in 15. Which I consider to be a better experience.
Turns out if you dig into the threads, it's also really difficult to get served or take a leak there. Asked my Everton season ticket holder friend about how all this compares to Goodison and he said simply "it's shte".
I told him he must be wrong. It's a new stadium. Everything must be better.
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| Cargiant site on 10:04 - Apr 20 with 2102 views | Northernr |
I did always wonder about the wisdom of a ground surrounded by water on three sides (= one way out). |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:09 - Apr 20 with 2077 views | TK1 |
| Cargiant site on 10:04 - Apr 20 by Northernr |
I did always wonder about the wisdom of a ground surrounded by water on three sides (= one way out). |
And a 15 minute walk to the one station, or shuttle buses...creates a huge bottleneck.
Goodison is a bit like a more stately Loftus Road. Absolutely grand old ground, incredible atmosphere easily generated, core to the personality of the club being right in the heart of a community and rising up from terraced streets, subject to managed decline by poor successive boards and in need of investment TLC, but otherwise perfectly adequate... | | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:52 - Apr 20 with 1960 views | dmm |
| Cargiant site on 10:09 - Apr 20 by TK1 |
And a 15 minute walk to the one station, or shuttle buses...creates a huge bottleneck.
Goodison is a bit like a more stately Loftus Road. Absolutely grand old ground, incredible atmosphere easily generated, core to the personality of the club being right in the heart of a community and rising up from terraced streets, subject to managed decline by poor successive boards and in need of investment TLC, but otherwise perfectly adequate... |
And the Goodison Road stand had stanchions holding up the roof; essential for the authentic old fashioned stadium experience of bobbing your head right and left to keep track of play. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 12:09 - Apr 20 with 1808 views | SydneyRs |
| Cargiant site on 09:52 - Apr 20 by TK1 |
Sorry to reignite this...
Interesting reading the comments of both Liverpool and Everton fans on social media about the state of Everton's new Hill Dickinson stadium, specifically how dangerous and difficult it is to leave the ground. Bottleneck leaving yesterday that took 45 mins to clear. Reminiscent of leaving WHU, only with adding crushing. Even when LR is sold out, I can be out of the ground on fulltime in ten, in a pub with a pint in 20 or on a tube in 15. Which I consider to be a better experience.
Turns out if you dig into the threads, it's also really difficult to get served or take a leak there. Asked my Everton season ticket holder friend about how all this compares to Goodison and he said simply "it's shte".
I told him he must be wrong. It's a new stadium. Everything must be better.
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Bloody hell, isn't this exactly the type of stuff new stadiums are supposed to fix? | | | |
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