| Cargiant site on 20:53 - Apr 16 with 3259 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 20:46 - Apr 16 by derbyhoop |
If we/you stand still, others go past us/you.
QPR have stood still for the last 11 years, if not 30+. The latter is based on getting relegated just as the teams in the top tier started rolling in Sky money.
Most would agree that Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton and Fulham have already gone past us. |
They have gone past us but most of them went past us without moving stadiums. |  | |  |
| Cargiant site on 20:55 - Apr 16 with 3236 views | queensparker |
| Cargiant site on 18:18 - Apr 16 by dutch |
I have watched Rangers for half a century and would watch them by a rope on Paddington Rec. But I am not at all sure I would go to little Chernobyl by the tracks. At best it will be a bland concoction of tower blocks, at worst it will be what it is now, a God forsaken wasteland. My parents swapped a tumbledown house in Notting Hill for a council house in Burnt Oak and regretted it every day. You can fix outside toilets, you can't buy history, character, authenticity. |
Agree with you mate - the way the world’s going being the only London club that still has an old school ground full of character in its original place surrounded by houses becomes an advantage to me over time, not a hindrance
When everyone else is catching a tram to drink in airport pubs to then queue up for the tram home and getting their food from Pret and Nando’s we’ll still have a ground in a real neighbourhood.
Embrace the heritage. Make the most of it.
That trip to West Ham was such an eye opener for me. If our home games were like that I’d stop going |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 20:57 - Apr 16 with 3201 views | R_from_afar |
| Cargiant site on 22:24 - Apr 15 by TwoHalves |
We could always get Yes back. |
Haha, nice one, and a timely comment too: They just released a new single, a new album is due in June and they are touring  . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
| |
| Cargiant site on 21:10 - Apr 16 with 3156 views | numptydumpty |
| Cargiant site on 20:55 - Apr 16 by queensparker |
Agree with you mate - the way the world’s going being the only London club that still has an old school ground full of character in its original place surrounded by houses becomes an advantage to me over time, not a hindrance
When everyone else is catching a tram to drink in airport pubs to then queue up for the tram home and getting their food from Pret and Nando’s we’ll still have a ground in a real neighbourhood.
Embrace the heritage. Make the most of it.
That trip to West Ham was such an eye opener for me. If our home games were like that I’d stop going |
West Ham have failed their fans for a quick buck. It was a bad idea and they still went for it...
Careful planning and correct decision making. Proper design and take your time.
We will move eventually but we wont go down the way the unhappy hammers have... |  |
| |
| Cargiant site on 21:11 - Apr 16 with 3160 views | Maggsinho |
| Cargiant site on 20:55 - Apr 16 by queensparker |
Agree with you mate - the way the world’s going being the only London club that still has an old school ground full of character in its original place surrounded by houses becomes an advantage to me over time, not a hindrance
When everyone else is catching a tram to drink in airport pubs to then queue up for the tram home and getting their food from Pret and Nando’s we’ll still have a ground in a real neighbourhood.
Embrace the heritage. Make the most of it.
That trip to West Ham was such an eye opener for me. If our home games were like that I’d stop going |
The thing is Loftus Road wasn’t built to be some charming relic of the past, a reminder of good times, it was built as a football stadium to take the club and the team forward and we need to replicate that now.
When does heritage become decay? When I have to get there early because the queues are otherwise too long and I’ll miss kick off? When I sit with no legroom and the lanky teenager’s knees sticking in my back behind me? When I can’t get food because of the queues?
I wouldn’t put too much store in West Ham, that’s an athletic stadium repurposed as a football stadium. I’d trust a good stadium architect to take the model of Loftus Road and build something new for us. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 21:55 - Apr 16 with 3044 views | derbyhoop |
| Cargiant site on 20:53 - Apr 16 by daveB |
They have gone past us but most of them went past us without moving stadiums. |
2 of the 4 have new stadia. And look how much Fulham have changed their ground. Bournemouth have short term plans to expand [Post edited 16 Apr 22:06]
|  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
| |
| Cargiant site on 22:00 - Apr 16 with 3004 views | R_from_afar |
| Cargiant site on 09:08 - Apr 16 by daveB |
The cost of buying the land and building a new stadium would be at least 300 million probably more, For that money I think you could knock down SA Road stand, make it safe standing and maintain the capacity and still have enough left to do the School end.
Stan Bowles Stand and the Loft I don't think you can do much with other than make them safe standing but that would make a lot more sense to me than a new stadium in the middle of nowhere. |
I do wonder if we could buy a building very close to Loftus Road, move the ticket and admin offices there, then reuse the space created for more seating and matchday/non-matchday hospitality...  | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
| |
| Cargiant site on 22:03 - Apr 16 with 3004 views | nadera78 |
| Cargiant site on 20:46 - Apr 16 by derbyhoop |
If we/you stand still, others go past us/you.
QPR have stood still for the last 11 years, if not 30+. The latter is based on getting relegated just as the teams in the top tier started rolling in Sky money.
Most would agree that Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton and Fulham have already gone past us. |
None of those clubs have gone past us because of their or our stadium, they've done it because they have good owners and are well run. We, on the other hand, have been badly run for a very long time now. Getting that fixed is far more important to QPR's future than a shiny new stadium. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Cargiant site on 22:26 - Apr 16 with 2928 views | TK1 |
| Cargiant site on 20:46 - Apr 16 by derbyhoop |
If we/you stand still, others go past us/you.
QPR have stood still for the last 11 years, if not 30+. The latter is based on getting relegated just as the teams in the top tier started rolling in Sky money.
Most would agree that Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton and Fulham have already gone past us. |
Yes, and in the last 15 years or so Bolton, Wigan, Cardiff and Huddersfield Town have all been in the PL in their new stadiums and they are now in L1, having gone past us in the wrong direction (Blackpool too, in their windy stadium). Next year, Leicester City will most likely have a lovely 33k new build stadium in L1.
Some of those clubs have almost gone bust in their new stadiums too.
It's called relegation and promotion, and unless you want to get rid of that then sporting achievement is not protected by stadium size. it's got nothing to do with stadia, as Bournemouth etc prove. Lincoln are about to join us as clear L1 champions with a 10k capacity, half that of at least six teams below them. Spurs built a stadium to compete with the top 4 in the PL: we may also welcome their 60k stadium to our level next season.
Eleven years stability ("stood still" as you describe it) in this league with the financial mismanagement the board delivered when they were gifted PL status, the same board you wish to sell our stadium and build a new one, is an achievement. We went down in 2013 alongside Reading and Wigan after all. Tickets to their new-build stadiums in L1 are plentiful now. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 23:22 - Apr 16 with 2798 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 21:55 - Apr 16 by derbyhoop |
2 of the 4 have new stadia. And look how much Fulham have changed their ground. Bournemouth have short term plans to expand [Post edited 16 Apr 22:06]
|
The stadiums are not why they went past us though. Fulham left us behind over 20 years ago when Fayed took them up and Brentford/Brighton/Bournemouth have all spent very well and produced very good teams | | | |
| Cargiant site on 23:45 - Apr 16 with 2773 views | PunteR |
| Cargiant site on 21:10 - Apr 16 by numptydumpty |
West Ham have failed their fans for a quick buck. It was a bad idea and they still went for it...
Careful planning and correct decision making. Proper design and take your time.
We will move eventually but we wont go down the way the unhappy hammers have... |
"Careful planning and correct decision making. Proper design and take your time."
Because our owners are notorious for that! |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Cargiant site on 23:47 - Apr 16 with 2764 views | Stocktake |
| Cargiant site on 22:26 - Apr 16 by TK1 |
Yes, and in the last 15 years or so Bolton, Wigan, Cardiff and Huddersfield Town have all been in the PL in their new stadiums and they are now in L1, having gone past us in the wrong direction (Blackpool too, in their windy stadium). Next year, Leicester City will most likely have a lovely 33k new build stadium in L1.
Some of those clubs have almost gone bust in their new stadiums too.
It's called relegation and promotion, and unless you want to get rid of that then sporting achievement is not protected by stadium size. it's got nothing to do with stadia, as Bournemouth etc prove. Lincoln are about to join us as clear L1 champions with a 10k capacity, half that of at least six teams below them. Spurs built a stadium to compete with the top 4 in the PL: we may also welcome their 60k stadium to our level next season.
Eleven years stability ("stood still" as you describe it) in this league with the financial mismanagement the board delivered when they were gifted PL status, the same board you wish to sell our stadium and build a new one, is an achievement. We went down in 2013 alongside Reading and Wigan after all. Tickets to their new-build stadiums in L1 are plentiful now. |
It's better to be able to increase attendance and improve facilities within an existing stadium as Fulham have done. But almost every assessment done indicates we can't do that. We have lots going for us - a decent core following, situated in the capital and with rich owners but the stadium is one of the main things hindering progress. Yes some teams will feck it up regardless through mismanagement, bad luck or both, but its about stacking the cards in our favour. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 00:11 - Apr 17 with 2714 views | Match82 |
| Cargiant site on 10:37 - Apr 16 by hubble |
I agree, I really don't think redeveloping LR is a goer, whereas the CG idea definitely has legs. And legroom.
At the same time it seems to me the negativity towards the CG site is based on unwarranted prejudice and lack of vision. At the risk of repeating myself: the CG site has huge potential; here's a positive vision:
1. Despite what some have said, Old Oak Common station, linking the Elizabeth Line and HS2 is going to happen (others in this thread have pointed out that the final stage of tunnelling has already started), and almost certainly by the time the rest of the CG site is developed. If this includes a new stadium, it will have probably the best transport links in the country.
From the HS2 website:
"Passengers will get to: the West End in 10 minutes, Liverpool Street Station in 20 minutes and Heathrow, using either the Elizabeth line or the Heathrow Express, in 10 minutes. The station will have 14 platforms – six for high-speed services and eight for conventional services. Up to 250,000 passengers will use it every day. It will connect London, the Midlands, the North and Scotland."
https://www.hs2.org.uk/buildin
2. Several people have derided the area, and I addressed this earlier in the thread, but the key point is how this area is redeveloped. Done properly, it could be a thriving residential and commercial hub to rival anywhere in London, with a canal-side park, a footbridge to the Scrubs, which itself is ripe for transformation from the scruffy mess that it is now, with its barely used football pitches and maze of muddy paths. It already includes a nature reserve and H&F and the Scrubs Trust want to expand that. They'd be against any development on it, and it is a common, after all, but they couldn't deny public access, that's what it's charter is all about.
4. The biggest problem currently is road access: Scrubs Lane is a bottleneck, but it does link to the A40. However, given the increasing trend/political pressure away from driving towards public transport, this will almost certainly not be an issue by the time the redevelopment is completed, which I think will take at least 10/15 years. Private car use may not even be a thing in London by then.
If I was a developer, this would be my vision. A purpose-built stadium here doesn't have to be a "soulless bowl"; as other people have shown in this thread, some new stadiums are really cool.
I think a large part of the negativity toward this idea is resistance to change, and I get it. I've been watching football at LR since 1975. I love the old place. I agree about its quirky charm and the surrounding area. But at some point, it really is going to be so outdated that it will either require major surgery, or we will have to move. And if we are going to move, then I think the CG site is easily the best option.... |
I don't have a massive preference one way or the other but the idea that the stadium is getting worse and the upkeep costs just to tread water will get worse too is an interesting one. A bit like having an old car that you keep hanging onto because "it still works" but at some point it's not cost effective to keep maintaining it |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:07 - Apr 17 with 2441 views | QPRConor2000 |
Its an absolute no brainer that we should be all over this for a new stadium.
I know the owners have wanted this site previously so it could be a real opportunity for us, this potentially could be our last chance to get it.
Id imagine we could get a decent bit of money by selling Loftus Road and putting it towards buying the land.
The transport links in the area are improving as well, weve got HS2 building a new station in the area and youve also got Willesden Junction next door as well so from a transport Point of view its well connected.
As much as we love Loftus Road, the reality is that we as a club need to move with the times and moving here would allow us to do that. You have potential to really build something that could take us to the levels I know we are capable of. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:16 - Apr 17 with 2415 views | stevec |
At present day ST prices, forget for a moment the cost of a brand new stadium, just to cover the nigh on £20 mill losses every season we’d need to increase the capacity not to 30,000 but by an extra 30,000, in other words a stadium size of 47,000 and hope we can fill it.
A stadium of 23,000 would essentially be shuffling the same set of cards we already hold.
Let’s face it, we missed the boat, as we tend to do.
If I was a board member I’d be saying we give them the worst quality leg room aside of the Luton away end, we give them the worst brand of beer in the entire universe, and serve it warm, we give them pies you wouldn’t feed your dog, we take their drinks bar away from them and stuff them in a concourse in sub zero temperatures and yet still, they fill the place out every week.
There will be no new stadium, we’ll stagger on until either the owner decides enough is enough or by some quirk of fate the quality of football in this league falls to such a staggering low we find ourselves inadvertently promoted. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:35 - Apr 17 with 2352 views | Maggsinho |
| Cargiant site on 08:16 - Apr 17 by stevec |
At present day ST prices, forget for a moment the cost of a brand new stadium, just to cover the nigh on £20 mill losses every season we’d need to increase the capacity not to 30,000 but by an extra 30,000, in other words a stadium size of 47,000 and hope we can fill it.
A stadium of 23,000 would essentially be shuffling the same set of cards we already hold.
Let’s face it, we missed the boat, as we tend to do.
If I was a board member I’d be saying we give them the worst quality leg room aside of the Luton away end, we give them the worst brand of beer in the entire universe, and serve it warm, we give them pies you wouldn’t feed your dog, we take their drinks bar away from them and stuff them in a concourse in sub zero temperatures and yet still, they fill the place out every week.
There will be no new stadium, we’ll stagger on until either the owner decides enough is enough or by some quirk of fate the quality of football in this league falls to such a staggering low we find ourselves inadvertently promoted. |
 | | | |
| Cargiant site on 08:39 - Apr 17 with 2337 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 14:51 - Apr 16 by DWQPR |
The depot is situated on the old depot that was there back in the day and doesn’t affect the CarGiant site at all. The footprint of the depot hasn’t changed at all. |
https://www.planningresource.c
"The depot is set in what is intended to be the commercial centre of a new piece of city, surrounding the planned Crossrail/High Speed Two interchange where 46,000 new jobs are envisaged. But the depot has been built without structural features to allow development above it, and these cannot be retrofitted.
"So the full regeneration could not go ahead without knocking down a new, publicly-funded £142 million building, even though the Old Oak Common plans were being drawn up before building the depot. Architect Sir Terry Farrell has described this as the biggest planning mistake he has seen in 50 years."
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:04 - Apr 17 with 2239 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 08:39 - Apr 17 by Northernr |
https://www.planningresource.c
"The depot is set in what is intended to be the commercial centre of a new piece of city, surrounding the planned Crossrail/High Speed Two interchange where 46,000 new jobs are envisaged. But the depot has been built without structural features to allow development above it, and these cannot be retrofitted.
"So the full regeneration could not go ahead without knocking down a new, publicly-funded £142 million building, even though the Old Oak Common plans were being drawn up before building the depot. Architect Sir Terry Farrell has described this as the biggest planning mistake he has seen in 50 years."
This post has been edited by an administrator |
and its saved god know how many millions doing it the cheap way ,
belive it will also make extra access very hard to achive to anf from the ground |  |
| |
| Cargiant site on 09:09 - Apr 17 with 2221 views | francisbowles |
| Cargiant site on 20:07 - Apr 16 by daveB |
I think you'd have a mix of seating and safe standing. It seems to me the worst areas for legroom are SA Road, Upper Loft and Stan Bowles so you could make them in the main safe standing and with a rebuilt SA Road stand you can build a roof over the bottom tier for seating.
It'll never happen in our lifetimes to be honest but I'd prefer that to paying mad money for a new stadium in the middle of nowhere because they may or may not open a train station near it and we might be able to have Boxing or a concert on it during the summer |
Whilst I agree with you on preferring to stay at LR, I cannot envisage SA Rd as safe standing. I would imagine the vast majority of folk in the main stand choose to be there as they want to sit and have a good view of the pitch from an elevated position. (apart from the pillars!😁). | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:16 - Apr 17 with 2188 views | SydneyRs |
I love LR too but its clear that we can't do anything with it really.
We wanted that site years ago and now its available. Where else can we go in the borough realistically? In many ways its ideal given there's emough land to build housing and amenities as well as a stadium and seemingly little in the way of potential objection and the sort of absolute nonsense that prevented Warren Farm. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:23 - Apr 17 with 2161 views | SpongeParr |
| Cargiant site on 11:57 - Apr 16 by TK1 |
Because they don't want to. What they have always wanted is to move the club to Car Giant and redevelop Loftus Road, which will suddenly have a bigger footprint than you imagine. The 23k revamp was worse case for them.
It's always been about OOC. They press released it and put it on the club website a decade ago!
My two big objections to knocking down Loftus Road and moving from W12 to a new build in NW10 at Scrubs Lane/Car Giant are these:
1/ QPR's identity is, I believe, intrinsically bound up in Loftus Road. More so than all the great players who've come and gone, Marsh, Bowles, Ferdinand, Francis, they're gone; it's more than the memories of matches, great old kits, players yet to bloom...Loftus Road is constant. It's 'Then Now Always' more than anything else.
So, if we can agree that there is some merit in that...
2/ If we knock it down, sell the land off (which will suddenly be revealed no doubt to have a bigger footprint than we imagine) and move elsewhere, why do Ruben Gnanalingam, Amit Bhatia, Richard Reilly, Lee Hoos and Christian Nourry get to pull that once in a century trigger?
What have Ruben Gnanalingam, Amit Bhatia, Richard Reilly, Lee Hoos succeeded at in a decade+ at QPR that gives them that privilege?
What proof have they provided that they will get it right? They have big credit for the training ground but in most other respects we are worse off than when the owners took over. How have they earned our trust, particularly recently, when truth has been employed sparingly? Benham at Brentford had a decade of growth and incremental success before he moved the ground - he earned the trust at each step and he got it right.
Let's have five years of sporting and commercial success and let's make the being a development club that they trumpet really work. Bribe us with some sporting success before selling off the crown jewel.
Because they will all be off as soon as we move in, that's for sure. |
They have always wanted to move stadium, and any good owner should!
Point 1. Clubs bigger than us have moved from more historic stadiums and made it work. Think Arsenal, Spurs are the obvious prem ones. Even Milan, Athelico are moving.
If we could develop LR then I think 100% of the fan base would be all for it. The only way to do that is by the council helping us out. We can't simply buy the school, buy the homes etc. We would need SAR to be able to be built on and then be able to pretty much knock down and start again.
LR where it is, legally, we cannot make bigger as if we knocked any stand down, we would then have to build to current regs and we wouldn't be allowed for it to be as steep.
2. Not really sure what your point is. Of course the owners of the club can do what they want with it. Ruben & co could have bought LR from us, own it, then cause loads of damage. They haven't done that and it would make no finantial sense for them to build something unuasble with no crowds as they would lose money.
3. The strategy is to be more sustainable. Look at the training, look at who we are buying. All young, potential players rather than just players who have played for half of the league already.
I genuinely fail to see why fans wouldn't want us to have a new stadium. Everyone loves LR and it will be a shame to eventually move but we need to unlock our potential and stop being so scared of change, just because LR means so much. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:26 - Apr 17 with 2132 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 09:04 - Apr 17 by wombat |
and its saved god know how many millions doing it the cheap way ,
belive it will also make extra access very hard to achive to anf from the ground |
Yeh I remember I think Lee Hoos saying in a meeting that it's caused all sorts of issues for the entire site/development. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 09:29 - Apr 17 with 2115 views | SpongeParr |
| Cargiant site on 22:03 - Apr 16 by nadera78 |
None of those clubs have gone past us because of their or our stadium, they've done it because they have good owners and are well run. We, on the other hand, have been badly run for a very long time now. Getting that fixed is far more important to QPR's future than a shiny new stadium. |
Disagree, on the stadium part (they are clearly well run).
Brighton, new ground in 2011, promoted 2016.
Fulham had a bigger ground than us at the time and now it's bigger still and loads of extra money coming in.
Brentford obv well run but now getting loads of extra money and an established club.
The likes of Cardiff etc got promoted, got loads of money and guess what, they are still getting loads of money that they could re invest if they had decent owners. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:19 - Apr 17 with 2006 views | terryb |
I've got no idea whether the Cargiant site would be good for Queens Park Rangers & I love going to Loftus Road (leg room is not an issue for me as we stand all match in the back row of the Upper Loft). For 60 years I've been "going down The Bush/Rangers" & I struggle to envisage playing anywhere else.
However, the stadium is way past tired! 40 years ago it was the most upto date football stadium in England & one of the first all seater grounds (all delivered at minimum cost). It was magical to be the envy of other clubs supporters! The problem is that it was developed to it's full capacity at that time & the club has either left it to deteriorate or can't afford the maintenance cost to keep it at the same level.
My questions are - Can the club can progress while the ground is stagnating? Or do we have to move to end 30 years of medocrity? [Post edited 17 Apr 10:48]
| | | |
| Cargiant site on 10:48 - Apr 17 with 1885 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 09:26 - Apr 17 by Northernr |
Yeh I remember I think Lee Hoos saying in a meeting that it's caused all sorts of issues for the entire site/development. |
lol dosnt supprise me one bit. they have looked to cut costs from day one on that site and are still way way over budget , with them looking to cut corners when ever they can while still building it . give it ten years it might be finished if they can find some cash down the back of the sofa , the uks biggest ever waste of money from day one . | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.