| So Cifuentes ? 12:16 - Dec 15 with 19067 views | WokingR |
A welcome return for a much loved manager or
booed as a Beale like lying deserter ?
I might clap him first half then boo him for the second |  | | |  |
| So Cifuentes ? on 11:20 - Dec 20 with 2231 views | dm97 |
Lot of revision on here.
Two things can be true at once: Marti did a good job in difficult circumstances and Stéphan is doing a good job in better circumstances. It’s not mutually exclusive
Neither are top rangers managers and neither are poor ones. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 11:26 - Dec 20 with 2216 views | Blue_Castello |
| So Cifuentes ? on 06:27 - Dec 20 by hubble |
"It was lovely to see for me personally."
I found it a bit painful, like watching one of your favourite ex-girlfriends reminisce about how nice it was going out with you. |
Agreed there's so many varying opinions on the Cifuentes departure and I still have the feeling he didn't want to leave, he said as much as he walked round the ground at the end of the season.
Nobody knows the facts because it's how Nourry manages his reign as supreme leader, what we can only surmise is that Marti had significant disagreements with CN and that was always going to end one way as it's his way and you have to toe the line.
Sad to see Marti in the opposition dugout but we've moved on as ever and always give our support to the club we support, will be a great atmosphere today and if we can replicate the energy of the Birmingham game we have a good chance. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 12:08 - Dec 20 with 2162 views | 1JD |
| So Cifuentes ? on 21:35 - Dec 19 by 1JD |
1. You are conflating posters.
2. Ainsworths record across both seasons was utterly dreadful and relegation form, if not rock bottom [Post edited 19 Dec 21:37]
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Since francisbowles decided to downvote my post, without response, where I stated Ainsworths total record across both seasons was “was utterly dreadful and relegation form, if not rock bottom”, I decided to look into the numbers.
Ainsworths record;
2022/23: 13 games, 11 points, 0.85 PPG.
2023/24: 14 games, 8 points, 0.57 PPG.
Combined: 27 games, 19 points, 0.70 PPG.
Projected points over 46 games:
0.70 × 46 = 32.
Which would have seen relegation in every season for the last 20 years.
And which would have seen a rock bottom 24th finish also for the last 20 years, save for 1 or 2 years.
Continues to amaze me the level of defense Ainsworth gets as a manager of QPR. He was dreadful. How we didn’t get relegated is a minor miracle, all thanks to Marti, who will be getting my support and appreciation today. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 13:43 - Dec 20 with 2081 views | francisbowles |
| So Cifuentes ? on 12:08 - Dec 20 by 1JD |
Since francisbowles decided to downvote my post, without response, where I stated Ainsworths total record across both seasons was “was utterly dreadful and relegation form, if not rock bottom”, I decided to look into the numbers.
Ainsworths record;
2022/23: 13 games, 11 points, 0.85 PPG.
2023/24: 14 games, 8 points, 0.57 PPG.
Combined: 27 games, 19 points, 0.70 PPG.
Projected points over 46 games:
0.70 × 46 = 32.
Which would have seen relegation in every season for the last 20 years.
And which would have seen a rock bottom 24th finish also for the last 20 years, save for 1 or 2 years.
Continues to amaze me the level of defense Ainsworth gets as a manager of QPR. He was dreadful. How we didn’t get relegated is a minor miracle, all thanks to Marti, who will be getting my support and appreciation today. |
His record was poor but he inherited a sh*t show from Critchley. The players had downed tools and how he managed to get those wins at the end of the first season was a miracle.
It was a poor appointment by the club as his style was the opposite of what the players were used to or would buty into.
We should just move on and stop hammering him.
Agree with you on Marti. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:14 - Dec 20 with 2055 views | 1JD |
| So Cifuentes ? on 13:43 - Dec 20 by francisbowles |
His record was poor but he inherited a sh*t show from Critchley. The players had downed tools and how he managed to get those wins at the end of the first season was a miracle.
It was a poor appointment by the club as his style was the opposite of what the players were used to or would buty into.
We should just move on and stop hammering him.
Agree with you on Marti. |
This is a message board about QPR and Ainsworth came up on this thread. You are not the messageboard police and cannot determine what fans wish to write about because you don’t like it. Ainsworth was a complete disaster, and took us the the brink. The data and facts don’t lie. You’ve clearly got considerable blinkers on and can’t separate Ainsworth the player from Ainsworth the manager. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:26 - Dec 20 with 2024 views | KensalT |
| So Cifuentes ? on 12:08 - Dec 20 by 1JD |
Since francisbowles decided to downvote my post, without response, where I stated Ainsworths total record across both seasons was “was utterly dreadful and relegation form, if not rock bottom”, I decided to look into the numbers.
Ainsworths record;
2022/23: 13 games, 11 points, 0.85 PPG.
2023/24: 14 games, 8 points, 0.57 PPG.
Combined: 27 games, 19 points, 0.70 PPG.
Projected points over 46 games:
0.70 × 46 = 32.
Which would have seen relegation in every season for the last 20 years.
And which would have seen a rock bottom 24th finish also for the last 20 years, save for 1 or 2 years.
Continues to amaze me the level of defense Ainsworth gets as a manager of QPR. He was dreadful. How we didn’t get relegated is a minor miracle, all thanks to Marti, who will be getting my support and appreciation today. |
If we look at Marti's first 13 league games it was three wins, four draws, six defeats @ 1 point per game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Not much better than GA's first 13 games which ensured our survival!
The big hole in your narrative is that Cifuentes did not do much better with the same players GA had to work with.
The big improvement came from the middle of January 2024 when the likes of Hayden, Hodge, Frey, and Andersen were added to the squad. Players who weren't available to GA but did have a big impact on their arrival.
If you want to make it all about the managers then fine that's your choice. But I am sticking with my belief that GA doesn't get enough credit for keeping us up in 2023. [Post edited 20 Dec 14:29]
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| So Cifuentes ? on 14:33 - Dec 20 with 2006 views | Mr_Beef |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:26 - Dec 20 by KensalT |
If we look at Marti's first 13 league games it was three wins, four draws, six defeats @ 1 point per game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Not much better than GA's first 13 games which ensured our survival!
The big hole in your narrative is that Cifuentes did not do much better with the same players GA had to work with.
The big improvement came from the middle of January 2024 when the likes of Hayden, Hodge, Frey, and Andersen were added to the squad. Players who weren't available to GA but did have a big impact on their arrival.
If you want to make it all about the managers then fine that's your choice. But I am sticking with my belief that GA doesn't get enough credit for keeping us up in 2023. [Post edited 20 Dec 14:29]
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If you want to compare like for like then Ainsworth managed 0.57 PPG that season compared to the 1 PPG that Cifuentes managed with the same players until January, and that was while he was in his first job in English football.
Ainsworth dragged us down to the relegation zone, playing some of the worst football I've seen at LR, and we only stayed up thanks to a lucky win at Burnley and the game at Stoke the following week. He then followed it up with more of the same the following year, and had to be told to change his tactics by the players. I'm not sure that's worthy of much credit at all. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:51 - Dec 20 with 1973 views | KensalT |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:33 - Dec 20 by Mr_Beef |
If you want to compare like for like then Ainsworth managed 0.57 PPG that season compared to the 1 PPG that Cifuentes managed with the same players until January, and that was while he was in his first job in English football.
Ainsworth dragged us down to the relegation zone, playing some of the worst football I've seen at LR, and we only stayed up thanks to a lucky win at Burnley and the game at Stoke the following week. He then followed it up with more of the same the following year, and had to be told to change his tactics by the players. I'm not sure that's worthy of much credit at all. |
If you compare them on their first 13 games it's GA 0.85 v 1 MF. Not such a great difference.
I will concede your point about 1 point per game being a significant improvement on 0.57. Although it wouldn't have kept us up that season as Birmingham went down with 50 points.
The reason I am labouring the point is that 1JD previously said on this thread:
"It’s not about who succeeded who. It’s about the squad available to the manager, any manager, and what you can achieve with that.
With Beale, the team hit the top heights during his reign. With Critchley and Ainsworth the team hit pretty much rock bottom.
With Cifuentes form was like top 8th. Same squad."
So it's not true that Cifuentes had us on top 8 form with the same players.
I'm not saying GA did a great job for us. But I think he is a better manager than he is given credit for and he doesn't get his due for keeping us up in 2023.
You will get no argument from me that Cifuentes did a better job for us than GA.
Let's just hope Marti has a stinker today. [Post edited 20 Dec 14:55]
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| So Cifuentes ? on 18:52 - Dec 20 with 1754 views | E17hoop |
I think we saw today just how one dimensional he is. 4 down and no subs?
No tactical changes through the half allowing us to play around them, through them, over them.
No pressure of note, just Ayew chasing like a headless chicken and no changes. When you've a talent like Monga - he's only 16- you have to give him a chance and push the opposition back. |  |
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| So Cifuentes ? on 19:03 - Dec 20 with 1674 views | SherryHoop |
I liked Marti and I think he created a professional atmosphere after coming into a very difficult situation. It was a messy ending but he turned the ship around.
It does feel like we are a better managed on the pitch now and Julien has a positive vibe about him. The squad feels much deeper too. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:07 - Dec 20 with 1629 views | kensalriser |
He's got his work cut out there, they were an indisciplined rabble for much of that game. Not sure how they got away with just the two cards. |  |
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| So Cifuentes ? on 19:12 - Dec 20 with 1582 views | Superhoops2808 |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:07 - Dec 20 by kensalriser |
He's got his work cut out there, they were an indisciplined rabble for much of that game. Not sure how they got away with just the two cards. |
Still think that elbow in the face of Saito prior to he being substituted was a red |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:13 - Dec 20 with 1581 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:07 - Dec 20 by kensalriser |
He's got his work cut out there, they were an indisciplined rabble for much of that game. Not sure how they got away with just the two cards. |
Yeah, a lot of over inflated egos and bank balances to try and get a tune out of. You could see after the second goal most of them downed tools and couldn't give a toss.
I can't see him being sacked as they can't afford it. | |
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| So Cifuentes ? on 19:19 - Dec 20 with 1543 views | silky |
How was Marti received today? Did he clap the QPR fans at all?
So glad we put in a performance like that. Just how I hoped it would be. |  |
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| So Cifuentes ? on 19:22 - Dec 20 with 1515 views | 1JD |
| So Cifuentes ? on 14:51 - Dec 20 by KensalT |
If you compare them on their first 13 games it's GA 0.85 v 1 MF. Not such a great difference.
I will concede your point about 1 point per game being a significant improvement on 0.57. Although it wouldn't have kept us up that season as Birmingham went down with 50 points.
The reason I am labouring the point is that 1JD previously said on this thread:
"It’s not about who succeeded who. It’s about the squad available to the manager, any manager, and what you can achieve with that.
With Beale, the team hit the top heights during his reign. With Critchley and Ainsworth the team hit pretty much rock bottom.
With Cifuentes form was like top 8th. Same squad."
So it's not true that Cifuentes had us on top 8 form with the same players.
I'm not saying GA did a great job for us. But I think he is a better manager than he is given credit for and he doesn't get his due for keeping us up in 2023.
You will get no argument from me that Cifuentes did a better job for us than GA.
Let's just hope Marti has a stinker today. [Post edited 20 Dec 14:55]
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Yes, you really are labouring the point.
“But I think he is a better manager than he is given credit for and he doesn't get his due for keeping us up in 2023.”.
As you’ve said several times on this thread. But there is literally no data that supports GA did a good job, or should be given credit for saving us that season, as you keep putting it.
Taken in isolation, one can spin staying up as a PR success story - one that Ainsworth spun himself, and you evidently bought.
But taken in combination over two seasons, this school of thought is shown up to be what it is. Nonsense. GA presided over relegation form, over two seasons, not one.
The second season is key, as it reveals GAs true managerial performance, as is the performance of the replacement manager Marti, who proved that squad was not relegation fodder.
Thereby, demonstrating how GA didn’t “save us”, but in fact, was the primary reason why we were in that position in the just place. Again, across BOTH seasons.
You are flogging a dead horse. But I suspect, you’ll carry on regardless. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:29 - Dec 20 with 1468 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| So Cifuentes ? on 18:52 - Dec 20 by E17hoop |
I think we saw today just how one dimensional he is. 4 down and no subs?
No tactical changes through the half allowing us to play around them, through them, over them.
No pressure of note, just Ayew chasing like a headless chicken and no changes. When you've a talent like Monga - he's only 16- you have to give him a chance and push the opposition back. |
He was outthought by Julien in all areas today and it was a pleasure to see. How he set them up in that first half considering he knows most of our players was embarrassing: we tore them apart. Not surprised he made no changes until the 63rd minute and his team were still passing it around at the back with no urgency either: we’ve all seen it before. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:35 - Dec 20 with 1402 views | Damo1962 |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:29 - Dec 20 by Ned_Kennedys |
He was outthought by Julien in all areas today and it was a pleasure to see. How he set them up in that first half considering he knows most of our players was embarrassing: we tore them apart. Not surprised he made no changes until the 63rd minute and his team were still passing it around at the back with no urgency either: we’ve all seen it before. |
He is nice guy and gave us a few memorable games. He also gave us some absolute shockers. Always thought he was bit over-rated. Much prefer Julien...as he has turned around our awful home form. GA, Critchley and MC never really did TBH. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:44 - Dec 20 with 1389 views | dachiltern |
All I will say is not one for his CV. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:52 - Dec 20 with 1301 views | Logman |
I was amazed how predictable they were under Marti. I thought he was better than that. They didn't change their shape at any stage of the game. The wingers hugged the touch line even though they probably only touched the ball about 5 times all game and he just left Ayew up top on his own despite him not getting a look-in. Looked like he had run out of ideas to me. We read them like a book. [Post edited 20 Dec 19:52]
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| So Cifuentes ? on 19:57 - Dec 20 with 1260 views | NorthantsHoop |
Well done Rsss, a very enjoyable result from the Upper Loft. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 20:30 - Dec 20 with 1096 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:13 - Dec 20 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Yeah, a lot of over inflated egos and bank balances to try and get a tune out of. You could see after the second goal most of them downed tools and couldn't give a toss.
I can't see him being sacked as they can't afford it. |
Sorry if its been discussed or posted but what happened to the points deduction Leicester City have coming their way or will they walk away free and easy.
I think if they get that deduction Marti will stay and rebuild but if they skate he might get the ax and a big name come in.
Be very interesting to get on their message boards tonight and see the fallout |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 20:36 - Dec 20 with 1037 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| So Cifuentes ? on 18:52 - Dec 20 by E17hoop |
I think we saw today just how one dimensional he is. 4 down and no subs?
No tactical changes through the half allowing us to play around them, through them, over them.
No pressure of note, just Ayew chasing like a headless chicken and no changes. When you've a talent like Monga - he's only 16- you have to give him a chance and push the opposition back. |
Monga is only 16? Wow, he looked class. But yeah, bid odd to make no half-time subs. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 20:46 - Dec 20 with 978 views | Beckenhamhoop |
| So Cifuentes ? on 20:30 - Dec 20 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Sorry if its been discussed or posted but what happened to the points deduction Leicester City have coming their way or will they walk away free and easy.
I think if they get that deduction Marti will stay and rebuild but if they skate he might get the ax and a big name come in.
Be very interesting to get on their message boards tonight and see the fallout |
From what I’ve read they’re looking at a 9 or possibly a 12 point deduction in the New Year. | | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 21:29 - Dec 20 with 827 views | joolsyp |
| So Cifuentes ? on 19:07 - Dec 20 by kensalriser |
He's got his work cut out there, they were an indisciplined rabble for much of that game. Not sure how they got away with just the two cards. |
The body language of a lot of their players today screamed "we're too good to be in this league." Sadly for them they're not. |  | | |
| So Cifuentes ? on 21:33 - Dec 20 with 803 views | joolsyp |
| So Cifuentes ? on 20:36 - Dec 20 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Monga is only 16? Wow, he looked class. But yeah, bid odd to make no half-time subs. |
He reminded me of the kid at school that was head and shoulders above everyone else and the only the way you could get the ball off him was to crowd him out with 5 or 6 players. Incredible talent at 16. | | | |
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